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  #1  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:54 PM
DaveZ DaveZ is offline
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Default Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTools

First off, I am new to the world of digital audio recording.
I didn't want to make the newbie mistake of asking a question that has been asked 50 times already, so I searched for the answer before asking the question.
If I missed it in the forum, my apologies.
I also apologize for the length of this post, but I thought I should give too much info rather than not enough.

What I am trying to do is record 2 guitars and a PA on 3 separate tracks so that I can EQ and tweak them after recording.

I have been using a cheap Behringer mixer to send these 3 mic signals to my mac via USB.
The behringer output (rca cables) is connected to a small Xitel inPort device that converts the signal to USB.
The USB goes into the mac, and I record using Audacity.
This is great for what I am doing but the 3 channels are "summed" into one stereo track that is recorded to the mac.
Even though I try to get a good level before recording, inevitably, one of the guitars or the PA comes out too high in the final summed stereo track.

What I want to do is record multiple tracks, live, simultaneously so that each mic is on its own independent track.

I researched a bunch of USB and firewire enabled mixers, but was not sure about their functionality.

Then I had a buddy give me a Digi 002.

I do not have ProTools, nor do I want it.
The learning curve looks fairly steep, and for what I am doing that would be massive overkill.
Audacity is fine for my situation.

I started devouring info from this forum trying to determine what I needed to do in order to use the 002 for this purpose.

I have been able to use the 002 in stand-alone mode and send the output out over the RCA cables to the Xitel inPort adapter that converts the signal to USB.
In this scenario (stand-alone mode) the 002 acts just like the cheap behringer mixer mentioned above, sending the 3 tracks summed to the mac for recording in Audacity

My question is regarding the Digi 002 and using firewire to get the audio to my mac WITHOUT using ProTools.
I can send multiple tracks to Audacity but I can't set the level of the input for recording in Audacity.


My setup is very simple,I use:

3 shure SM-58 type mics to mic the 2 guitar amps and the PA.
These connect via XLR to channels 1-3 on the Digi 002.
The correct buttons are pushed for a mic input rather than a line in.
The gain on channels 1-3 is set at about 2 o'clock on the gain knob.

The 002 is connected via firewire to the macbook pro (intel) running snow leopard.
I am using a belkin cable for connecting the mac's firewire 800 to the 002's firewire 400.
I have the core-audio driver installed (for snow leopard, v 8.0.3).
I take the 002 out of stand-alone mode and put it into standby mode.
I use the core-audio driver to "connect" to the 002, the scribble strips display "Working..."

The mac can see the 002 and use it for input.
In Audacity, I select to use 3 (of the 18) channels available.
I can record 3 tracks simultaneously, with each mic showing up as its own track.
My issue is that the level can't be set for input into Audacity.

When the digi 002 is in "working" mode, none of the faders can adjust volume.
In Audacity, I can adjust the gain on the individual tracks to get the level a little higher, but it seems to introduce more hiss as well.

I am hoping I am doing something wrong, some little thing that, in my inexperience, I have overlooked.

Please school me...

Thank You
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:46 PM
promixr promixr is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

I'm thinking that you need to find an Audacity forum...
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:01 PM
DaveZ DaveZ is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

Fair enough, but it is the same result using Audacity, Adobe Audition, or GarageBand.

My thinking was that I was overlooking something having to do with the Digi 002 either the core-audio driver or the hardware itself.

Thanks.
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  #4  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:12 PM
promixr promixr is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

Why are you using 'Stand-Alone Mode' - the Mac should see the 002 as an audio device and you should be able to have your three tracks over Firewire- the faders and controls won't work in Audacity, but you should get three independent audio signals which you can mix together however Audacity mixes them together...

Not sure what your resistance to Pro Tools is though- you qualify for the crossgrade owning the 002 and it really is far superior to the software you are attempting to use.. and you get full compatibility with the 002.

http://imsproav.com/main/AVID99206500200.html

Pro Tools is the single most popular recording software ever created.. *for a reason*
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  #5  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:42 PM
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Craig F Craig F is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

there is no remote input level control on the 002/003
that's what the gain knobs are for on the pres
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Thank you,

Craig
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:26 PM
DaveZ DaveZ is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

promixr

Thanks, I think my resistance to using Pro Tools is that I am intimidated having to learn how to use the application. I recently worked at a radio station, and I saw the production guys using the application and I saw some of what it could do. Granted, they used it 8 hours a day, so they could fly through it.

I am afraid if I jump into Pro Tools, I will spend more time learning the application than I would actually playing guitar and recording music.

You mentioned being eligible for a crossgrade. I am not sure that would work for me, I don't have any license keys, or proof of ownership. The unit was given to me without any of that so I could not prove I am the rightful owner.

I have used the stand alone mode only because I could not get the levels set using the firewire interface method. My preference is to NOT use stand alone mode if possible.

Thanks for the post
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  #7  
Old 09-29-2011, 07:31 PM
DaveZ DaveZ is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

Craig F

Thanks for replying

For the other 4 channels with out a preamp, could I use an external preamp before going into the 002?

Should I use an external preamp on ALL inputs and set the levels there?
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  #8  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:31 PM
jbasil jbasil is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveZ View Post
promixr

Thanks, I think my resistance to using Pro Tools is that I am intimidated having to learn how to use the application. I recently worked at a radio station, and I saw the production guys using the application and I saw some of what it could do. Granted, they used it 8 hours a day, so they could fly through it.

I am afraid if I jump into Pro Tools, I will spend more time learning the application than I would actually playing guitar and recording music.

Dave, I can honestly say that PT is the easiest of all of the software you mention to learn and use. It has the most intuitive interface and you can ignore parts you don't want to get involved with. It's always been my software of choice as the one that gets in the way of the music the least. GarageBand is simple to use at a certain level but frustratingly unintuitive on another. Audacity is very cool and inexpensive but I find it more effort to use. Many people think very highly of Reaper but I find Reaper gets in the way of my creativity immensely. I always return to PT. Not that you have to use it, but it's really among the most simple and straightforward multitrack programs out there. It's usually the cost that puts PT down on people's lists. But if you can do a small PTLE rig I'm sure you'll spend no more time learning it than anything else, and you'll spend at least as much time making music as on other programs.

What makes it hard for folks like yourself is that no matter how you cut it there are two layers of learning curves: one for whatever software you decide to use and one for the workflow of digital recording in general. Once you start getting over the humps it'll be smoother sailing.
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2011, 06:56 AM
promixr promixr is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

I am simply recommending Pro tools to you for one major reason, you own a 002. The control surface- with it's dedicated knobs and faders can actually assist you in learning Pro Tools, software interfaces can be cumbersome to be sure, but with the 002 you have a much more natural workflow- the interface becomes more 'human.' Your 002 will not work this way with any other software.

If you email me the serial number of the 002 I can tell if you are eligible for the crossgrade price.
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2011, 07:02 AM
DaveZ DaveZ is offline
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Default Re: Digi 002-using FW & core-audio drivers to output audio to mac WITHOUT using ProTo

Jbasil

Maybe I am dismissing PT as too difficult due to my not having used the application. You make a good point in that you keep returning to PT, after using other software. I take it from your comments that after I get over the initial hump of learning to use it; the reward for my efforts will be to leverage the full capability of the 002 and Pro Tools.

After reading your post, I started to research going that route. I did find quite a few folks that echoed your sentiments. I also looked into what it would cost to acquire the PT version I need. That is where I got even more confused. I don’t have a pre-existing version or an iLok USB key. A previous poster (promixr) mentioned a crossgrade, but that looks like it would require a previous version.

For what I am trying to do, recording 2 amateurs playing guitar in the basement, it would not make sense to spend that much money for PT. Seems like using a shotgun to kill a fly.

On the other hand, I feel as if I am wasting the potential of the 002 by not using PT. It’s like someone gave me new car, and I only use it to drive to the mailbox at the end of the driveway…

Does anybody know (ballpark) what it would cost to purchase the version of PT that need to work with the Digi 002 and Macbook Pro (Intel) w/ snow leopard?

My preference is still to have the multitrack input into Audacity, Audition, etc. but the replies from you folks are making me consider other options.

Thanks all for your input
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