ProTools as live mixer for reharsal (no PA)

[robertoqc]

Hello!

I have a small home recording studio which I also use for my band's reharsals.

My current configuration is as follows:

Monitor room
PC with Protools 8.0.5
2 profire 2626
which are normally connected to my drums (14 mics)

Reharsal room
Behringer XR18 digital mixer
Powerplay for earphones amplification
Laptop with Cubase LE 9.5

I use a stereo out from the profire2626 to feed the drums mix L/R to the Behringer XR18. All others band members instruments + vocals also connect to the XR18. The mix is controlled via the laptop (through a Behringer app) and I use Cubase to record. The app also manages the submixes which are fed to the powerplay (+ individual channels for "more me").

My issue is the following: both computers are in a LAN. When I record with Cubase, I could then batch export the tracks and mix them in ProTools. However, the drums is only L/R, and my Cubase does not support batch export so I have to export each track individually which is time consuming.

If I get a third Profire2626 and chain it with the other 2, by placing it in the reharsal room (so I can connect to the other profire through a couple of 5m toslink cables), I will have 8 more ins. This will be enough to plug mics and instruments and to bypass the XR18 entirely.

I can control the PC remotely through the laptop with a remote desktop application.

Will I be able to control the whole mix in ProTools and each earphone submix, and also be able to record when we need (so that 24 tracks are recorded) or latency will make this impossible?

Note that I will not use any plugins, ideally. If you think I need at least some hardware minimum specs (like, 32GB RAM) it's no big deal, I can get it.

Thanks for your help!
Roberto

[mjslakeridge]

Wow! that is a lot of drum mics for a home studio.

Do the Profire units allow for a 3rd unit to be used? Do you record your drum mics into ProTools, or just the stereo submix recorded into Cubase?

What are the specs of your current ProTools PC? I don't think you will necessarily need a ton of ram just for recording with minimal plugins.

I think your biggest challenge will be to get the individual earphone mixes out of ProTools using the Profires (I am really not familiar with that unit, so I don't know how many discreet outputs they have). I use a Furman 4 channel (plus a stereo channel) headphone distribution system, fed directly from a 20 channel analog mixer.

[robertoqc]

Hello! And thanks for you reply.

Indeed it's a lot of mics. My drumkit is huge (double bass, 4 rack toms, 2 floor toms, etc.). I've been adding stuff for years...

The profire2626 allows up to 3 units to be chained, as far as I know. I'm not sure if more. See this post http://m-audio.com/kb/article/1650

The drum mics are connected to the profire in the control room. I then use a stereo output to bring the L/R signal to the room mixer, which is connected to a laptop running cubase. All other musicians are plugged into that mixer. So, when I use the room mixer, I record the drum kit on two tracks (L/R) with cubase. My goal would be to mix and record directly with ProTools, up to 24 tracks, including the drum tracks and all the other instruments. To make live studio, for instance. Bypassing that mixer.

My PC is a desktop with the following specs:
Asus running Windows 7 ultimate 64 bit
Intel CPU i3 [email protected]
RAM 8Gb
This can be upgraded at will, basically.

Each profire has 8 outs. So if I add a new one directly into the room (connected to the others by a couple of 5m toslink cables), other musicians will plug into that one. I can then route to its 8 outs any aux mix that I want. That's no big deal.

My concerns are on the latency - Will the mixed signal reach the performer's ears timely in order to make them play naturally? Or will it be delayed even that tiny bit that makes it impossible to work with?

Thanks again,
Roberto

[mjslakeridge]

There is always going to be "some" latency. The lower you can set the hardware buffer size in ProTools, the less latency you will have. BUT, the lower the hardware buffer size is set, the more cpu processing power is used. Your i3 550 isn't the most modern or powerful cpu. See the attached link to PassMark performance test:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_look...3.20GHz&id=739

I really think you would benefit from a modern cpu with more cores, but that would involve a new motherboard and probably new RAM.

If you can set the hardware buffer size in ProTools to 128 samples or lower, I don't think the latency will be noticable. I do notice a bit of latency when using a buffer size of 512 samples. Not so much at 256 samples. The fewer plugins you use during tracking the better so they don't tax your cpu.

[robertoqc]

Hello!

Yes, I was thinking that too. I need and wanted to upgrade the PC. The i3 worked well so far, I managed to do everything I needed with it, but probably now it's time to upgrade. Get a quad core i7, 32GB RAM... this kind of stuff.

My biggest fear at this point is to go through all the installation process (both hardware and software... ProTools, all plugins...). Which is why I haven't upgraded so far.

Do you have any suggestion on how to do it less painfully?

Thanks!
Roberto

[mjslakeridge]

There is really not a pain-free way when it comes to installing software. Changing motherboards will require a clean installation of Windows. If you don't do a clean installation of Windows, and just try to clone over an image of the OS drive, then the old motherboard's drivers will be embedded in the Operating System, and it will cause problems.

If you do upgrade your hardware and re-install of your software, don't forget to do all of the Avid recommended optimizations. I think adding another Profire to your setup, will let you accomplish what you intend to do, and you can record all tracks directly into ProTools. You may give it a try with your current computer - who knows, it may work OK for tracking with few to no plugins.

You may even want to consider one of the new 6 or 8 core AMD Ryzen Cpu's. From what I have read about them on another forum, they have come a long way since the FX series cpu's.

[robertoqc]

Hello! A quick update of what it's turning into a nightmare...

I bought a third profire2626 and connected it to my system with toslink cables as indicated by M-Audio. It doesn't work - channels 1&2 make a lot of "digital" noise and channels 3-8 are dead (the profire works perfectly if connected directly to the pc with the firewire). I will ask M-Audio about it.

I bought a new PC (i7, 32GB RAM, Win10) to find out that ProTools M-Powered does not work on Win10 and that Profires are not supported either. D'oh!

I guess I could upgrade to PT12 and make the profires work somehow. But at this point I am starting to think if there's an easier hardware solution with which I can still use PT12. I would need a 24/32 XLR ins interface and I'm leaning towards a Presonus Studiolive 32R or a Mackie DL32R. I started another thread in this forum about it, in Third Party Interfaces. I am not sure they would work though...

Any help is welcomed!
Roberto