Better dealing with latency: PT, DP, Cubase, Nuendo

[michael c]

We have only used ProTools with TDM (since 1997). As we transition to new MacPros and HD10 (and possibly 11HD) we are thinking of moving to HD Native since we still have ProControls and our biz plan may not make sense to go HDX. We have heard so many stories on how HD Native would be fine, others complain about the latency. We need to deliver 48k/24 bit and never record more than 4 live sources at a time these days. But we do build our mixes with VI's as we move to the end of the project and this means we need to do live overdubs at the end of a project. This is where we are concerned with the latency issue.

Does ProTools deal with this latency as well as Logic, Digital Performer, Cubase, Nuendo et al? Since so many composition studios use these other DAWs and they don't use DSP cards, are they doing something different than ProTools or dealing with the latency more elegantly? Or are all DAWS the same when dealing with latency.

Thanks.

[JFreak]

HD|Native latency can be very close to TDM. Here is a chart (half way the page, click "compare latency").

[propower]

At 48kHz the lowest HDN latency you can achieve is 3.2ms (1.5X your current HD system). This will only be achievable with much carful selection of plugs and VI's. 4.8ms is much easier to make work well (44.1/64buffer). Only you can say whether this is OK for you. There is a low latency monitor method in PT but this will mute all plugins in the record path.

No software is "better or worse" at this than PT. The hardware is critical as is the connection path (TB/PCI way better than FW/USB).

You may want to seriously look at the UA Apollo family - RME and MOTU. All have built in dsp low latency in the record monitor path.

Search - latency - on this forum for many recent relevant threads.

[michael c]

Originally Posted by propower

There is a low latency monitor method in PT but this will mute all plugins in the record path.
.

By this, do you mean any plugs on tracks you are recording to? Or does this mean all plug-ins in the session.

Thanks.

[PeterB]

Michael if you are trading in your TDM system then go HDX no doubt about it.
I spent a long time debating which way to go, HDN or HDX and the live tracking with a full mix incorporating VIs was a big worry for me too. In the end, the difference on cost between trading in my HD3 and going the native route was negligible over say 3 years, so I traded in to HDX.
I couldn't be happier it's been fantastic so far.

Peter

[dimf]

Originally Posted by PeterB

Michael if you are trading in your TDM system then go HDX no doubt about it.
I spent a long time debating which way to go, HDN or HDX and the live tracking with a full mix incorporating VIs was a big worry for me too. In the end, the difference on cost between trading in my HD3 and going the native route was negligible over say 3 years, so I traded in to HDX.
I couldn't be happier it's been fantastic so far.

Peter

Could not agree more +1
latency wise I am happy with HDX compared with TDM system (HD)

[propower]

Originally Posted by michael c

By this, do you mean any plugs on tracks you are recording to? Or does this mean all plug-ins in the session.

Thanks.

Only the plug ins on the track you are recording to get muted. But the workflow is all different. You need to set up a LowLatency pair of outputs as well. I was HD 1998 to 2011. Listen to your HDX brethren. I make HDN work but it is a beast that must be fed on a session by session basis if you want Low Latency. HDx will just pick up where you left off (minus a bunch of now unsupported plug ins in DSP format).

[michael c]

The fact that we are forced to replace our ProControls as well, makes the HDX card seem SO more expensive for our business model. Plug-ins seem to be abandoned as far as HDX 'plugs' go, so it is mainly the latency issue that seems like a benefit. In the days of falling budgets, it is hard to get excited about HDX for me at this point? Not sure.

[propower]

Originally Posted by propower

You may want to seriously look at the UA Apollo family - RME and MOTU. All have built in dsp low latency in the record monitor path.

[Barry Johns]

I agree with some others, HDX can be a hard pill to swallow for many these days, but a no brainer for others. HDN along with one of the UA Apollo I/O's can give the best of all worlds. You would only need to invest in a few UA Plugins that you need for tracking purposes only, then do everything else in HDN.