Pro Tools Bugs out the Kazoo

[facher83]

Originally Posted by nod25

Digi should just make a "box" that we can all use, flawlessly. I've said this a million times. Turn it on and it works. Period. Then we can all get back to making music and less time being software technicians—imagine that... Utopia, instead of insanity...

I have my beefs with PH (Propellerheads) and Reason (v.4) but I have to say Reason 4 is an incredibly stable application - my main beef is it doesn't do enough for production I want to do. I've been running Pro Tools rewiring a Reason slave, and it sometimes feels funny as I look at them working on dual monitors... when PT crashes it's as if I can hear the other app mocking...

But any way. I have been able to educate myself on what not to do and what to do enough to have about an 80% successful stability rate now, which is "ok".

My biggest disappointment is that I compose full orchestra tracks. 32 PT Tracks even as Instruments is quite... inadequate.

[tha]-[acksaw]

Originally Posted by nod25

Digi should just make a "box" that we can all use, flawlessly. I've said this a million times. Turn it on and it works. Period. Then we can all get back to making music and less time being software technicians—imagine that... Utopia, instead of insanity...

Don't get my wrong, a box like this would be great. I just don't understand what kind of problems you guys are having with ProTools. I run all kinds of Virtual Instruments, I use a tone of IK, FX and Waves stuff, I run Melodyne via its Bridge (never use Reason). I can't remember the last time PT crashed on me, or gave me an error. I mix and track in sessions with 32 tracks or more all the time, and I never have problems. I'm running PT M-Powered 8.

I guess I just look at it like this. If I (and lots of other users) can run PT on my system with the kinda things I ask it to do, which is often a lot, and not have any problems, it just makes me think that its something with your computer, hardware, or the 3rd party softs that you use. Its a flat out fact that the PT software is the same from studio to studio, in relevant class (LE, MP, HD). So, if all the software runs the same, and lots of people don't have problems, but you are, then its something specific to your setup. Just trying to implement some deductive logic here.

If you want to get rid of problems then spend some quality time going through all the optimization and troubleshooting. Make sure all your computer and recording hardware is supported and up to date. Make sure all your softs are supported. And make sure your not using any Digi "no no's".

[jojo99]

Well, is that really valid deductive reasoning? It works for you...therefore...
?? No, not to discourage advice/help but it really isn't.

It's "likely" a combination of new PT8 introduction (coding - with the likeliness of mediocre to nearly non-exisiting testing enviro - inhouse at digi or outsourced. Welcome to digi testing - you're it!) and also very likely a services/processes, driver/os/sys setup (on the user end). It's likely a combo of both in this case by his description. I know PT8 has some hurdles of it's own to work through.
This is exacerbated when we talk about digi and the windows enviro as well.

And, it's not just Digi that suffers from this of course, ....but if we talk about tiers of stabilty, I'd place PT8 somewhere near mid-bottom ("features" , and stability).

No need for a full sandra report.
Facher, is this by chance a storebought, off the shelf/namebrand system?
What services are running upon bootup? (type ctrl-alt-del, read and list processes or make a screenshot .jpg of it. ).

What is checked in startup tab of msconfig? (go: start - run - type "msconfig"). list all that are checked.

Resolve might be as simple as managing some services - (start - run - type "services.msc")

* Personally, I never, ever...ever buy a system off the shelf. I will always research the parts and build myself based on the needs.
And no Vista. There's no need for it. If Vista must be purchased, then you contact MS explain the details/issues and demand XP downgrade.
I've done it several times now for customers.

[tha]-[acksaw]

Originally Posted by jojo99

Well, is that really valid deductive reasoning? It works for you...therefore...
?? No, not to discourage advice/help but it really isn't.

By no means am I suggesting that ProTools 8 or 7.4 or any other version for that matter doesn't have its bugs or flaws. Anyone using any of these softwares better understand that before getting into it. Its safe to say that 99.9% of people on the DUC know this. Well maybe not 99.9% but you get my meaning.

However, the problems that Facher is having are not bug related issues. They are problems that are occurring from 3rd party software , recording hardware or computer hardware issues. How do I know... cause I had lots of problems when I first started using ProTools on Windows with a crappy Dell computer. I had to optimize everything. I had to make sure I had supported chip sets for my Firewire. I spent several weeks going through everything making sure it worked just right. And for a long time I didn't have any problems minus the fact that my computer wasn't powerful enough for the stuff I was doing. It is a pain that we have to do this to make ProTools run. I agree to that, but here is my biggest point...

I upgraded. I got a PCAudioLabs and this thing is smoking. Its faster then I need. Its completely optimized right out of the box. I plugged this thing is and didn't have to set a thing, aside from my hardware I/O. Right out of the box this thing has worked flawlessly. Never had one PT crash or other problem that wasn't related to a bug that needed fixing by Digi. Therefor it is sound deductive logic to say that ProTools (minus the bugs) runs fine. Its the computer hardware, recording hardware and 3rd party softwares that gets us into trouble. And its safe to say, that seems to be what Facher is experiencing.

[facher83]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

Its the computer hardware, recording hardware and 3rd party softwares that gets us into trouble. And its safe to say, that seems to be what Facher is experiencing.

I have chosen to dual boot so I can use a 'clean' copy of Windows with Pro Tools so that no other programs can 'mess it up' (booting to another install for anything else, games, office, etc). Hopefully this prevents many issues, I just hope that the way PT seems to inject itself onto hard drives doesn't do strange things to the dual OS's.

As far as 3rd party items, I'll say that PT had issues getting started out right, before running Reason at all or anything else.

[tha]-[acksaw]

This is just an observation, so don't get pissed, but the fact that you do gaming, office work and stuff like that on a machine that works PT is probably not the best place to start. If your gonna work audio, you might want to get yourself an exclusive system. Its not a matter of life and death, but as important as it is to me to have a system that functions very very well, i would never consider installing anything that wasn't related to audio, or troubleshooting audio/hardware probolems. Just my 2 cents right off the bat. This also means no internet access of any kind, definalty no wireless of any kind, along with a few others.

Originally Posted by facher83

I have chosen to dual boot so I can use a 'clean' copy of Windows with Pro Tools so that no other programs can 'mess it up' (booting to another install for anything else, games, office, etc). Hopefully this prevents many issues, I just hope that the way PT seems to inject itself onto hard drives doesn't do strange things to the dual OS's.

I run a dual boot for switching on and off my 3GB switch for Windows. I have run ProTools on both boots without a problem. I use 4 different internal hard drives for storing audio as well as a full sample library. The folders PT adds to each drive upon startup has never give me any problems. I also run two hard drives for seperate operating system, or versions of PT rather. One for PT8, and one for 7.4cs9. I have never had problems switching between the two, with any of the Digi librarys.

Originally Posted by facher83

As far as 3rd party items, I'll say that PT had issues getting started out right, before running Reason at all or anything else.

This kinda goes back to a few things. It might have had to do with hardware problems. Either on your computer, or as a part of your recording setup. Or, and this is more likley since your doing all kinds of stuff on your PT computer, maybe it was the fact that you never optimized your computer. The fact that you're just getting around to setting up a Clean Windows Dual Boot does suggest that was never done in the first place. On Windows, optimization is not an option, its a must, if you don't want problems. And yes I do think its lame, but its still necessary.

[facher83]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

This is just an observation, so don't get pissed, but the fact that you do gaming, office work and stuff like that on a machine that works PT is probably not the best place to start. If your gonna work audio, you might want to get yourself an exclusive system. Its not a matter of life and death, but as important as it is to me to have a system that functions very very well, i would never consider installing anything that wasn't related to audio, or troubleshooting audio/hardware probolems. Just my 2 cents right off the bat. This also means no internet access of any kind, definalty no wireless of any kind, along with a few others.

Perhaps if we grew money off of the trees out back this would be possible. I also don't use PT right now for live recording, but actually sequencing/rendering.

For those of us who can only afford one 'good desktop machine' at any given time, we also need them for: web development, email, online banking, networking, communication, etc.

Not everyone can run in their 'ideal' environment. If I were to have my way (by having loads of cash) I'd simply hire an orchestra and recording studio to make the music - but that isn't going ot happen right now.

I run a dual boot for switching on and off my 3GB switch for Windows. I have run ProTools on both boots without a problem. I use 4 different internal hard drives for storing audio as well as a full sample library. The folders PT adds to each drive upon startup has never give me any problems. I also run two hard drives for seperate operating system, or versions of PT rather. One for PT8, and one for 7.4cs9. I have never had problems switching between the two, with any of the Digi librarys.

That is good to know. This PT installation won't have anything other than sequencing software on it, or basic OS functions. The other installation is for non-music junk. I also have 6 SATA drives spanning 2 terrabytes... it's amazing how expanding your sound library a few times a year forces the need to dig up hard drives to use.

The fact that you're just getting around to setting up a Clean Windows Dual Boot does suggest that was never done in the first place. On Windows, optimization is not an option, its a must, if you don't want problems. And yes I do think its lame, but its still necessary.

That is quite the assumption. I perform clean installs about twice per year to reduce clutter and residual installations/uninstallations. On the contrary, the second PT8 install on my desktop machine was a clean OS install I had done that morning (one of the reasons it took hours to troubleshoot). The first one that failed badly encouraged me to do a clean install just 'in case', the same day.

[tha]-[acksaw]

Originally Posted by facher83

For those of us who can only afford one 'good desktop machine' at any given time, we also need them for: web development, email, online banking, networking, communication, etc.

Not everyone can run in their 'ideal' environment. If I were to have my way (by having loads of cash) I'd simply hire an orchestra and recording studio to make the music - but that isn't going ot happen right now.

There is a BIG difference between "ideal" and doing whats necessary for something to function the way it should. And taking ownership for not doing something that needs to be done, like optimizing.

Believe me, I understand your situation man. I really do. I didn't always make money ProTooling, and I didn't always have money to spend. Never been rich, or had money on trees out back. And really it has little to do with that. This is not about your need to invest more money, but rather more time taking care for essentials. Based on your very first post on this Thread it came across like were pissed that you spent all this money, and it didn't work. Just because you spend money to get the recording gear doesn't mean you are good to go, or even know what your doing. Believe me, I've been there. If you want smooth operation, its YOUR job to make sure all your hardware is supported, and all the optimizations have been done. Hindsight it sounds to me like your problems are due to a laq of windows optimization. If thats not the case then its your computer hardware, NOT your ProTools MP software.

Originally Posted by facher83

That is quite the assumption. I perform clean installs about twice per year to reduce clutter and residual installations/installations. On the contrary, the second PT8 install on my desktop machine was a clean OS install I had done that morning (one of the reasons it took hours to troubleshoot). The first one that failed badly encouraged me to do a clean install just 'in case', the same day.

I wasn't making the assumption that you have never done a fresh or clean install. I was making the assumption that you just got around to making a dual boot. Having a clean install is one thing, and a big help, but setting up your system with a Dual Boot specific for ProTools, that has all the optimizing already done... IS A FLAT OUT MUST. Since you're just getting around to trying this to see if it helps your issues, is it safe to say you have never done it before? Or did you make a dual boot, and then just decided you didn't want to use it?

[facher83]

So, point and clicking in the score window... you can drag to the right to extend a note's written length... however, at some point, accidentally moving the mouse up (or something), hard crash, Pro Tools 8 window goes *poof* into thin air.

Woohoo.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by nod25

Digi should just make a "box" that we can all use, flawlessly. I've said this a million times. Turn it on and it works. Period. Then we can all get back to making music and less time being software technicians—imagine that... Utopia, instead of insanity...

Uhmm... Isn't/wasn't that the logic behind HD? (where they are having even larger issues at many times the price we paid in Nativeland)

Doesn't seem to be workng for them there either.