Record Offset for 3rd Party Hardware? WTF!!

[Carl Lie]

Originally Posted by Top Jimmy

Carl,

Are there still tick boxes in the I/O setup input and output tabs that say something like "Compensate for delay after record pass"?

Yes both were checked I thought but I will double check that just to be sure.

Tomorrow I'll run it again and triple check what I did. Unless anyone can verify these results in the mean time. I'm working on something else tonight.

C

[sfere1]

Thanks Carl! I'm interested in finding out the final result with those tick boxes also. If so ...this is an extreme issue and the fact that more people haven't chimed in or just don't seem to care is crazy. Especially if recording with delay comp off.

btw 500+ views and still no sight of digisupport's view on this.


thanks yet again

Dennis

[Carl Lie]

OK same results. Boxes check to compensate for input and output delays/

Clipping my bad (in a rush last night). Test run at 48K.

However would be nice to hear from AVID on why there is a delay with delay compensation turned off.

Would like to know how to adjust.

Carl

[Carl Lie]

One more thing.

I unchecked the I/O delay buttons in the I/O tabs and got the same result.

When I went back to recheck them they were greyed out.

Not sure what the deal is. Would like to know if these options are actually working on other systems.

Can anyone else verify this test?

C

[sfere1]

in one word...WOW!!!

hey Carl why isn't everyone trippin' out?

WTF?!!!!

I"ve got 1 HDX waiting for me paid ...and I'm seriously reconsidering. My Native HD and other PT Native is about to get ebayed depending on an answer from digi on this. NOT A HAPPY CAMPER>

Dennis

[panamajack]

I have a Pro Tools 10 HD setup, but for this test, I used PTHD8, so I would have a baseline for comparison.

I played around on my HD2 system running on a quad core dual 3GHZ Dell under Win 7 64bit. I recorded a wood block into an audio track. The only other tracks/plug-ins were the stock click track and a master fader. Then I recorded many additional audio tracks based upon the first track. I used one of the analog channels on a 96 that is daisy-chained to a 192. The mic pre was a Focusrite Trakmaster.

For a playback engine, I had the hardware buffer set to 256, using 3 of 4 processors with an 80% CPU usage limit. Session was at 44.1kHz with 48 voices. First I tried the "long" delay compensation engine. For all tests, the DAE playback buffer (disk) was Level 2 (1,500ms) and the cache size was normal. The plug-in streaming buffer was also the Level 2 default (250ms).

In I/O setup, I checked both Input and Output for "compensate...delays after record pass."

In the Session setup window, after inserting only the click track, Pro Tools indicated a system delay of 17 samples. With audio tracks added, it showed a system delay of 39 samples.

The last test I did was analog 2 OUT of the 96 into analog 7 IN of the 96. The result there was between zero to three samples difference in the edit window, measuring fully zoomed in.

The initial tests I made were different. I played back the first track through speakers, and recorded a new track using a mic and the Focusrite pre, back into the 96. The best performance was with the click track removed, but with delay compensation on, except set for "short," and both the checkboxes enabled for "Compensate for I/O delays." That track measured 17 samples.

The worst result was with no delay compensation, and no checkboxes enabled and with the click track in. That measured 104 samples. With delay compensation activated and set to long, the offset was reduced to between 27 and 31 samples.

I have two Logic setups, and had a third setup for a while, so I understand the issue. Logic allows tweaking the hardware offset so its arrange (edit) window may be sample accurate, and it is hard to see why this feature would be omitted from Pro Tools. Especially since the software may be used with "foreign" interfaces.

With the click track removed, the compensation readout across all of the subsequent audio tracks was 22 samples, which translates to 0.5 milliseconds.

[sfere1]

panamajack we need you to test PT10 HD ONLY as this is where we are seeing the issue. Also we're ONLY looking at HDX and HD Native systems..thanks for the try though.

thanks
Dennis

[Patheticus]

I hope this gets fixed. I'm about to buy an HDX system, but definitely won't if this is the case. Where are you at with this Avid???

[panamajack]

Originally Posted by sfere1

...we're ONLY looking at HDX and HD Native systems...

thanks
Dennis

I did some similar testing on my PT10HD setup. This computer has a PCIx core card, but without an interface at present (i.e., not in use), and also an RME HDSP9652 PCIx card.

This computer is a dual 2.4 GHz CPU AMD Opteron (Tyan S2892) running with 10GB memory. It has two 7200 SATA drives and a SSD. It is under Win7 64bitw/SP1. (The HD8 computer does not have SP1 installed).

The RME card has 24 ADAT in and out, plus a pair of SPDIF. There are no converters on the RME card. It has been working fine with PT10HD. I monitor through an 888/24 in standalone mode, configured to receive SPDIF. For this test, I connected a Focusrite Trakmaster Pro with the optional SPDIF digital out going into the RME card.

I created an empty session, and imported the wave file from the PT8HD session above.

I tried three different buffer settings with the RME card. At 1024, PT session said system delay was -546 samples. At 64, PT sessions setup read -414 samples. At 256 (which is what the PT8HD session was configured as), the PT10HD sesson setup read -222 samples of system delay.

The first track I recorded by sending the wave file to a bus, and then recording the bus onto a new track. This session was also at 44.1 and 24 bits. There was zero sample delay in the "edit" window.

Then I recorded additional tracks with a mic in front of the monitor speaker. I set the output of the new track to a dummy bus to prevent a feedback loop. I did this several times, with ADC on, I measured between 91 and 96 samples. There was a change of only one or two samples regardless if ADC was on or off, or if low latency monitoring was checked (no plug-ins except the click track).

All the tracks recorded with the mic in front of the monitors showed 290 samples CMP. The click track, the original wave and the bused track showed zero samples. All were green.

When running PT10HD with the RME card, the PT I/O setup window does not show the "compensate for Input (Output) delays after record pass" checkboxes.

[groundcontrol]

Normal it's running as standard protools on core/asio audio. This test is interesting but unfortunately irrelevant to our discussion.