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  #1  
Old 07-16-2001, 07:07 PM
bjorn for a reason bjorn for a reason is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

there is no substitute for an analog consoles' monitoring and return functions
headphone mixes etc.
in my humble opinion
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  #2  
Old 07-16-2001, 08:15 PM
nipple nipple is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Get rid of the board. Studio Technologies makes a product called Studio Comm that handles all of your typical master board module functions like master volume, CD/Tape ins, speaker switching, routing to other machines including headphones amps etc.. plus it has a talk back mic. It's called the model 60/61 and lists for about 800 clams - U.S.. Furman also makes something very simialr called the SRM 80 I believe except no talkback mic. If you need a control surface but can't afford Pro Control or control 24 go for CM Automation's Motormix. 8 motorized faders, 59 switches and 9 rotary knobs plus access to many of Pro Tools functions including changing plugin parameters. I've used Pro Control, the HUI nad Motor mix extensively and Motor mix,all things considered (not the least of which is price), wins hands down even though it's a little slower reaction time due to communicating via mid as opposed to ehternet. It can be had for about 800 simolians -U.S. of course - which is about 1/10th the list price of control 24 and over $10.000 less than Pro control. You can't fully escape the mouse with any of these items but they do make life a bit easier.
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  #3  
Old 07-16-2001, 10:07 PM
nagra4 nagra4 is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

I have been using the Mackie HUI now for a while. It totally blows analog out of the water for functionality.
You wanna' get rid of your 02R? Watcha' gonna' use for mic. pre's? We kept our 02R for pre-amps and as a digital router via lightpipe. The setup kicks ass.
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2001, 12:59 AM
fab fab is offline
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Default Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Hi all.

First post in a looong time.
I'd like to appeal to the wisdom and experience of the good people of this board on a subject that pretty much keeps me from sleeping right now. (I know, I know)

I'm relocating my studio to a new location and I'm taking advantage of that event to "clean up", rationalize and upgrade it.

THE BIG QUESTION:

Do I sell my O2R and go full PT?

My fears/questions for people who made the jump:

(As a primer ProControl and Control 24 are out of the question financially)

-Is it still fun to mix with just a keyboard and a mouse? I'm scared a bit.
Does anyone find the motor-mix thing to be worth the trouble?

-Is the PT 2buss going to sound as good as the O2R Two-buss?

-Is it going to be a royal pain to create headphone mixes on the fly (That TDM delay everytime I insert sends and fx is just horrendous)?

-Is it going to be practical to access my outboard Lexicon/Eventide/Avalon gear in a PT only set-up? (On mixdown mostly)

-How on earth do you manage two track returns (CDs, CD recorder, DAT, K7s, and monitor levels and stuff like that?

Voila,

Can we lay down on a couch and talk about this?
I can't possibly be the only one wondering.

Any insight on any of these topics welcome.

Ciao,

Fab
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  #5  
Old 07-17-2001, 04:15 AM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Hi Fab,

I went down this route myself a couple of years ago: I had an O2R + PT (as a recorder/editor). I was lucky enough to have the budget to get a ProControl and got rid of the O2R. So I can't answer your first point.

<< Is the PT 2buss going to sound as good as the O2R Two-buss? >> No ... IMHO, PT sounds considerably better.

<< -Is it going to be a royal pain to create headphone mixes on the fly (That TDM delay everytime I insert sends and fx is just horrendous)? >> Nope, it's dead easy. I actually find it easier than on the O2R.

<< Is it going to be practical to access my outboard Lexicon/Eventide/Avalon gear in a PT only set-up? (On mixdown mostly) >> Absolutely, I do this all the time. Using the digital I/Os from an 888/24 and stereo aux imputs for the returns. Obviously though you need to buy enough 888/24s to give you the number of I/Os you need for your all your outboard gear.

<< How on earth do you manage two track returns (CDs, CD recorder, DAT, K7s, and monitor levels and stuff like that? >> Each channel on an 888/24 has two simultaneous outputs; one analog, one digital. I use the analog outs for monitoring and the digital outs to DAT or whatever.

Voila [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Greg
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  #6  
Old 07-17-2001, 05:16 AM
Irene Irene is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Great news Greg, I'm about to sell my 02R and go full on PT it just seems like the way to go all things considered. I've been on the couch too and did realise that holding onto the 02R was more about a psychological prop than practical sense, and now I can't wait to get rid of it and move on!
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  #7  
Old 07-17-2001, 08:26 AM
Black Frog Black Frog is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

We went 'boardless' when we started with PT about 3 years ago.

Financially we opted to put the $$$ into more DSP cards, plugins, mics, pre's, etc, instead of getting a HUI or PronControl or Control24- so we have been in "mouse click and keyboard land" ever since. Of course it's more time cosuming than having a control surface, but I like having the extra goodies for tracking and mixing.

Maybe someday we'll get the ProControl.... I can dream can't I?
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  #8  
Old 07-17-2001, 10:09 AM
sidereal sidereal is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

One thing to keep in mind is if you've always been mixing on a board, you're probably going to miss it. At least until you get used to using the mouse and keyboard. But prepare to rewire your brain a bit and for some initial frustration. If you do ditch the console, learn keyboard commands and use them.

btw, as an alternative to the 888 for fx, look into the 1622. It's 20 bit, but it makes an excellent patch bay for fx units. Also, you can monitor straight out of the 1622 to your speakers. With this method you use PT's master fader as volume control. (do NOT automate anything on the master fader itself!) Keep in mind the 1622 only has two outputs though. For headphone outputs, you could route a stereo signal out the 888 to a small, well, ahem, mixer. So you'd still need a mixer of some kind in this scenario for headphone monitoring.

But this is what I do and it works great for me. (I'd love a C|24 tho.)
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  #9  
Old 07-17-2001, 11:19 AM
Mark Haliday Mark Haliday is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Just changed RadarII+02R combination for a 5 card mix PT with a ProControl and I love it !
The only things I miss are the 02r monitoring options, and very rarely the EQ and compression which have there own character (I would love an 02r emulation plug-in )
As for "the sound" I am mixing again a project first mixed on 02R/RadarII with 32 tracks and I am finding the whole thing cleaner and warmer.
The only problem is that to get the same DSP power as a 02r you need (in my opinion) at least 4 mix cards, if you want to be able to use really good eq & comp plug-ins.
I also keep a analog console only for the preamps when I have a lot of live inputs like drums etc.
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  #10  
Old 07-17-2001, 08:25 PM
fab fab is offline
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Default Re: Getting rid of our Mixing Boards? Philosophical question.

Hey,

Thanks all for the feedback. VERY useful.
The picture is getting clearer.

It seems the O2R board is out. (That was my yearning anyway

Here's my current feeling on the problem, with your precious comments taken into account.

I don't have a fader fetish, I did alot with the ProTools even though I had the O2R in front of me, so that should be fine.
The motormix sounds kind of cool, I do run ALOT of midi and I'm not too keen on messing my carefuly designed grooves with boatloads of control 7 info.

I'm going to follow the Studio Comm route for monitoring, it seems very thourough and elegant. (Funny to think that a Nipple just helped me build my recording studio)

The headphones mixes will be handled by a Furman system that lets people do their own mixes (Now THAT's an upgrade). The Furman will be fed by the analog outputs of the 888.

I will route my Lexicon stuff to the digital I/O of the same 888 (Need for SPDIF to AES/EBU converters. Grrr) The analog outboard will be routed to the Apogees (See below)

The money from the O2R will help buy an Apogee AD16 and DA16 pair of converters that I'll route through my (Currently being upgraded to 24 bit) Adat Bridge. (I gave the ADATs to the Sisters of The Poor

There's a genius upstairs in my buliding who spent the last few month building the ultimate analog summing buss to be able to bypass the PT one. He said he'll build one for me if I cook him enough french food. I'm writing this on my way to the supermarket.

I'll use my current Avalon/Neve/Tubetech outboard as mic pres (I never really could get myself to use the Yamaha's anyway)

There's another genius I know who actually knows how to use a saw. I'm going to commision him to build me the coolest "pod" to hold the computer keyboard/mouse/studiocomm remote.
It's going to be half way between a Startreck ship control deck and my uncle's 1972 Citroen DS21 Convertible.
Clients won't even notice that there is no mixing board in the studio. Crucial.

Then the world shall be a better place.

We can keep on discussing though, I love to be confused by good advice.

Thanks again.

Fab

[ July 17, 2001: Message edited by: fab ]
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