Please Tell me that I am Kidding....

[liquidtools]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

The kit is mostly sought after for all the other functions that I guess u may have missed & not necessarily for the plugs which is what Danny & others meant when sayin that Digi should only sell the tracks/busses/session import without the plugs...

I know LOL I was just being a dick ya have to forgive me I just had all my wisdom TEAF yanked out my head so im stuck in limbo between unbearable pain and percocette and I cant get up to do anything other then sit here and be a smart ass... just give me a few days

[cakes]

Originally Posted by alex s

Out of interest, what system are you running ?

002R with DV Toolkit.

[alex s]

Originally Posted by cakes

002R with DV Toolkit.

Thanks,

I was just wondering if you were hitting a HD# ceiling like me.

Funny now how we have all this processing power with newer computers and it's only imposed software limitations holding us back.

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by alex s

Thanks,

I was just wondering if you were hitting a HD# ceiling like me.

Funny now how we have all this processing power with newer computers and it's only imposed software limitations holding us back.

Jus adding to ur experience Alex, I have a studio in Nashville, HD3>G5... I literally cannot stand working on the rig anymore because I can't open anything done on/in the native system; the example session I described up top, I will normally put an instantiate of Auto tune on each individual vocal track like THIS...

I can't open this or if it does open on the HD rig, it's not playing & this has not a thing to do with other plugs, this is just AT only...

[alex s]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

Jus adding to ur experience Alex, I have a studio in Nashville, HD3>G5... I literally cannot stand working on the rig anymore because I can't open anything done on/in the native system; the example session I described up top, I will normally put an instantiate of Auto tune on each individual vocal track like THIS...

I can't open this or if it does open on the HD rig, it's not playing & this has not a thing to do with other plugs, this is just AT only...

I'm with you totally on that.

I'm in danger of taking this thread off topic again, but what the hell.

I think this issue is coming to a head one way or another. Either Digi will let HD work as efficiently with RTAS as LE does (ie voice allocation), give us a full featured Native option, or people will start finding other solutions.

You don't see it as much here, but over at gearslutz where I usually hang out (scanner), you get quite alot of LE haters... with the whole "buy HD and get with the Pros" sort of attitude... this is starting to wind me up more and more as it really is missing the point. As you and I can testify it's not about money or buying more cards... it's about power. If I have an in effect 75% of my LE system laying idle because of software limitations, or have to have an mac pro HD 3 rig to match mixing performance (power, not features) then something isn't quite right. This combined with the fact that once I have all my HD3 cards in my new mac pro I run out of pcie bays. Want to bigger..? it's expansion chasis time.

I remind you, running at 25% system use my LE rig out performs my HD2 rig. I wonder what the Native possibilities would be running a 64bit OS with hyperthreading and access to more than 3GB RAM ?

This isn't a digi hate post, I wouldn't own so much of it if it was.
I'm pretty sure digi has got something up their sleave,
Im just voicing my frustration at some people's low opinion of native systems.

Al

[danander11]

Originally Posted by Keybeeetsss

The kit is mostly sought after for all the other functions that I guess u may have missed & not necessarily for the plugs which is what Danny & others meant when sayin that Digi should only sell the tracks/busses/session import without the plugs...

'Zactly! I knew the limitations of LE when I bought it. My needs grew but not to the point of justifying the cost to upgrade to HD. I just needed a few simple things (that are available elsewhere as a free standard offering), that could only be found with many things I didn't, for a very hefty price, (from my perspective). Kind of like upgrading from a sedan to a station wagon, but having to buy the camper trailer with it. I'll never use the camper.

One thing folks need to remember is that when PT9 comes along with 128 tracks our upgrade price will be the same as the guys with no kits. It's almost as if the further up the LE foodchain you get the less they want to do for you. Except have Tony K drop by for a chat ..

EDIT: (I got tired of typing that on my iPhone ;-) ) I'm not starting a flame here on Digi or DTS or anyone in particular.. Just voicing a bit of displeasure that I have over Digi's marketing practices... and sharing an opinion or two on how I percieve the company/customer relationship with Digi.

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by danander11

It's almost as if the further up the LE foodchain you get the less they want to do for you. Except have Tony K drop by for a chat ..

[Darney]

Originally Posted by danander11

'Zactly! I knew the limitations of LE when I bought it. My needs grew but not to the point of justifying the cost to upgrade to HD....
One thing folks need to remember is that when PT9 comes along with 128 tracks our upgrade price will be the same as the guys with no kits. It's almost as if the further up the LE foodchain you get the less they want to do for you. Except have Tony K drop by for a chat ..

I think your point is key... most of us READ the PT LE Specs before we committed to it. Compared to what was available when some of us got into DAW's, PT LE kicked all other DAW's butts. As our techniques morphed from the old analog days to the digital age, we realized the incredible flexibility that was given to us (or rather, we paid for). Once we hit the ceiling on the software limitations, some of us wanted MORE. To me, it isn't Avid's fault that we hit those limitations, it's a by-product of our own growth and expertise. And Avid has responded with PT LE 8.. more basic tracks, more busses.. etc. Maybe not to the extent some of us want, but they have responded.

At least it's not Cubase.... or Roxio (JAM is still one of the best CD creation packages ever.. and they crippled it with Toast Titanium by not allowing you to PRINT A FRIGGIN' TRACK LIST!).

For me, PT LE 8 is amazing - the workflow is logical and relatively simple, I have enough tracks and busses to do what I want to do. Offline bounce would be great... ADC would be handy.. but I can deal with the quick, manual solutions with no issues. I see the need for some of the users here for tons of busses - that's just their technique... not good or bad.. it just is how they work.

As for software not keeping up with hardware developments (hyper-threading, 64 bit, etc.) we all saw what happened when Avid/Digidesign announced that only Intel machines would be supported in the next major release. It's a balancing act for the software developers. They've never been able to keep up with hardware advances (for the consumer market) because they do have to consider the fan base that can't afford to toss out their system and buy a new one to capitalize on new software that maximizes the hardware capabilities. Talk about alienating your customers!

All-in-all, this has been a great thread, I've learned some stuff that I want to practice with to see how it helps/hurts my mixes, etc.

But, everyone should keep in mind the simple axiom of "different strokes for different folks"... it may drive us crazy knowing how some people mix, but hey, if it works for them, so be it!

As always, your results may vary.

[Keybeeetsss]

Originally Posted by Darney

But, everyone should keep in mind the simple axiom of "different strokes for different folks"... it may drive us crazy knowing how some people mix, but hey, if it works for them, so be it!

But why? what different does that make? this post doesn't need to be answered because it wouldn't even make sense if it was answered but I'm just asking for general purposes...

[daeron80]

This has been a fascinating thread for me. I'm finally beginning to understand why some projects and mix styles demand so many busses. I'm one of those old fogies who cut his teeth on 2" tape and non-automated consoles, mixing down to 1/4" tape. My workflow patterns were formed in that environment, and I guess I still think in those terms to a degree. I once mixed a 120 track omnimax score and didn't use up 32 busses! So I have been a bit perplexed from time to time at people actually being angry that only 32 were available. I couldn't figure out what y'all could be using them for. Now I'm starting to get it. So, thanks, all.

For those struggling with the limitations, something I do that allows me to have multiple pre-delays without an extraordinary number of verbs and busses is to use mono sends to auxes with short delays on them that in turn send to the same (mono in) verb. I picture how things should lay out, distance-wise. All of the things furthest away - say choir and pipe organ - get sent straight to the master verb. The next furthest thing(s) - maybe drums - go through a very short delay on the way to the master verb. If the drums are to be heard as 8 ft in front of the pipes/choir, it's an 8 ms delay. The next things up, maybe rhythm el gtrs, go through maybe a 12 or 16 ms delay on the way to the master verb, placing them a few feet closer than the drums. And so on. In a typical pop record, you probably have no more than 5 different distances. It's not like you have to have a separate delay for every instrument. Think in terms of groups of things spread out across the stereo spectrum at the same distance. It's very easy on processing power and quite effective.

Originally Posted by alex s

Either Digi will let HD work as efficiently with RTAS as LE does (ie voice allocation), give us a full featured Native option, or people will start finding other solutions.

IMHO, this is the thread-winning comment. Native processing is now increasing faster than the development cycle for dedicated DSP. The limits are going to have to start coming off soon, or both product lines will fall hopelessly behind the times. A/D, please don't let that happen!