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Performance question / upgrade descision
I read through quite a lot of the “best for under $1000” thread but I really can’t spare the time to read every page of it…
If some one could help me out with a quick question, it would be great.. My dilemma is that most people I’ve spoken to about processors recently seem to believe that the high end P4Cs in an 800fsb mobo are completely destroying the high end AMD rigs (as opposed to performance being fairly equal in the mid range from what I can tell) for multimedia processing. So, if money were less of an object than performance, would this be the case with PT? And also, can we run on an 800fsb mobo with good stability? Or are the chipset restrictions a big problem still for any newer rigs? (sorry I know nothing about P4s since I use an athlon, but I need to upgrade). Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks. |
#2
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
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Allen [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] |
#3
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
In the world of "benchmarks", "marketing", and "hype", the line that divides the winner and the loser if often blurred.
I'm a "computer professional". What does that mean? Well, besides the time I spend doing other things, like being creative and writing and playing music, I spend my time writing the software that you use. AMD 3200+, P4 3Ghz w/Hyperthreading, etc...whatever. The latest and greatest is the latest and greatest today. Tomorrow that will change. Intel and AMD compete. They offer similar products. In some areas one excels over the other. But overall, they are "similar". Does an AMD system "cost" less than a similar Intel based system? Sometimes 'yes'. Which way should you go? Doesn't matter...whatever you're preference is. Just remember that most mfgs go for the 'Wintel' combination for various reasons...sometimes other than pure performance. Either way, you won't go wrong when you buy today's latest and greatest system...whether it's Intels latest P4 or AMD's latest chip. Load it with enough RAM, a good HD or two, and make sure it doesn't conflict with Digi's HW recommenadation/requirements and you'll be fine for years to come... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] |
#4
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
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But if you are strictly talking about ProToolsLE, there is no better machine than the one Allen has listed in the "Best PC" thread. End of story. Yes, the P4s have been catching up in performance. But the price, while the lowest they have been in years, is still more than the AMD systems. Agent Fu. There is no need to read every post(all bazillion pages of it [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ). Just read the very first post. Allen updates it at least monthly. |
#5
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
Keep in mind not all new processor technologies are implemented in Protools or most plugins, so if you're researching a dedicated PT rig, might as well forget about spending extra for technologies newer than about a year, you'll probably end up disabling them. Reason might be more current on that aspect, not sure.
Also with a 32 track limit, it's not all that easy to max out a bleeding-edge PC anyways. Maybe running at 96kHz, but I think that's a little premature. It helps to track at 88.2/96 even if you're dropping to 44.1/48, but I can't see mixing all the way through at 88.2/96 nor releasing professional high-res media from an LE rig for at least a six months. Might as well wait for the necessary processing power to become cheaper while things sort themselves out. But what a scene that's going to be. For the first time in history, recording to a new audiophile format will be fully accessible with consumer equipment from DAY 1. Stack that up with the internet sharing fiasco among other things and I think it's safe to say a renaissance is at hand. I highly recommend positioning yourselves to adapt quickly to whatever lies ahead. Remember the geek rush (IT explosion) of the 90's? |
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
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So where are we at today? AMD systems that are at the end of performance increases for the XP processor line, anticipating the release of the new Clawhammer in Sept.. XP2500+ processors that have consistently performed as well or better than 98% of the P4 processors tested for only $89.00. A whole new inflow of highly rated and expensive P4 FSB800 processors and motherboards that aren't performing any better with PTLE than the first released P4 Northwoods running at FSB333 with DDR PC2700 ram. Nice thing about AMD is, as you go up in processor speeds on the same motherboard you can expect to see a performance increase. With the P4s it is like a crap shoot. You might see an increase and you might not. Even people that have overclocked on the P4 didn't see increases in performance with PTLE. That doesn't even make sense to me. Who knows why this is. Certainly doesn't justify the $300-700.00 that people are spending on these supposedly faster processors. I guess you can say I'm dissapointed in Digi for not supporting this Windows platform on the same level as the Mac platform and getting more AMD chipsets qualified as soon as they are released. These systems are still performing over 100% better than the best Mac G4. And I'm dissapointed that we are still being bombarded with marketing hype from Intel that the new P4s really are better, and not seeing any noticeble differences in PTLE performances in almost a year now. Just alot of smoke. Just a thought from a nobody though. Allen [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] |
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
By Allen Hallada
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They want to change. They say they want to change. I think what we all want is equal products. Not PC better, PC first or PC only but Mac=PC. However in my view, for that to happen in Digidesign's case it would take a massive amount of money spent, personnel changes and philosophies redirected. Frankly I don't think it will ever happen. At least not any time in the next 3 to 5 years. So you will keep seeing some of these things as you say. The G5 gets a ticker tape parade while the Xeons and Dual AMD's don't even hit the radar screen.
__________________
froyo |
#9
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
It´s always interesting to see how simple mistaken decisions can be on a relevant level. Digi ( and the plug developers ) seem to focus on MAC even though their products presented through MACS can only let appear / perform inferior to what it would look like on a PC.
All this assumably because they take in consideration of MAC users having more spending power as individuals. Meanwhile at least with the sales of their smaller systems they should have discovered that the PC market bears a much higher turn over potential, but still they nonetheless hold to their old politics from years ago where a PC just wasn´t sufficient for a stable DAW. Yet, the main target, the big boys who work with big systems stick to macs, because they havn´t yet realised how the computer world has changed and probably, simply because humans are habitual animals. But they are going to hear the news soon ( I´m already trying to spread current facts to them [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) and certainly be switching to PCs as well ( unless Apple would be so smart to change the performance / price relation of their mashines before. Yet it doesn´t look like they would. ) That day I guess will be the latest where Digi wakes up and switches focus to the bigger, much more purchasing PC world. Anyway, not too far in the future people will be saying "remember MAC computers?" Apple will be earning their money with peripheral gear or get away from hardware at all maybe, just selling / broking media work products. ( If I can say so.) That´s what I believe. |
#10
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Re: Performance question / upgrade descision
Thanks all for the comments. It's good to hear some solid experience relating to P4 and AMD.
Allen: That sounds crazy to me what you were saying about the performance fluxuations of the P4s...it would seem to compromize my understandning of how hardware works at all.. Could it just be a PT thing? I'm also going to be using my rig to render 3D and to do some other things related to Uni for the next year or so...so I've been looking at more general info on the cpus. (which is the origal reason I've been looking at P4s at all). My girlfriend just got the bits for a new P4 rig yesterday and it's quite a fun system (totally painless to build)...we left all of her old PCI cards lying around in boxes because everything is onboard (and pretty high quality versions of everything too)...and the system absolutely flies. everything just seems to happen instantly. it's a P4 2.8c with a gig of ram. So - I would have to admit that while I don't really need all that crap on board, the performance of it really sparked my interest. It's great if I can get maybe 20% better performance (for example - i don't really know)in PT on an AMD, but I have to make sure it's not going to be 40% worse performance than a P4 in Maya renders or AfterEffects, etc... because like some one said, it's unlikely I'll even max out the performance in PT on ANY high-end system anyway. So I guess one of the main things I was wondering is; When it comes time to deciding what to get in a few weeks time, are P4s on 865 chipsets completely out of the question for PT reliability? I mean if it will only PROBABLY work and have some minor issues, I'll forget about it entirely, but on the other hand if there have been people on the DUC that have used them without any hassels at all, it'd be something for me to consider as a headache-free option with good all-round performance. I've got an AMD currently and I'm perfectly happy to get an AMD again, I'm just curious about the full scope of my options. Thanks again. |
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