Upgrade choices

[LizziF]

So I'm looking at the upgrade options on Sweetwater. I am concerned about giving up PT 10 - or really some of my RTAS plugins. Most of them updated, but I haven't really had time to verify they all did. I realize it initially comes with 10/11/12.

But it got me thinking. I have an old MBox, an MBox2 mini, and an MBox2 micro that I got for traveling. I have 7.4 LE listed on my Avid account, as well as a 9 Crossgrade and the upgrade from 9 to 10/11. I believe the 9 crossgrade came from the PT 8 that came with one of the MBox2's. So I probably have a spare license around somewhere, not including the 7.4. Though who knows where it is.

Sweetwater has 2 different upgrade options, both of which show the Eleven free and they are both the same price. But I'm a bit unsure about whether the upgrade using the 7.4 with an Mbox2 will work actually work. Avid only lists PT Express with MBox or M-Powered 6-8. Is M-Powered mean MBox?

Would it be better to upgrade the 7.4? Or just use the 10/11 for the upgrade? Thoughts?

I actually thought I saw a thread on this, but looked back 2 weeks and couldn't find it.

Thanks for your help!

[nigelpry]

M-Powered is not MBox.

M-Powered relates to the days when M-Audio were 'owned' by Avid, and the M-Powered versions of Pro Tools tested for the presence of an M-Audio interface at launch.

No M-Audio interface = Pro Tools would not launch.

For Digidesign/Avid interfaces, the equivalent was Pro Tools LE, which tested for the presence of an MBox, or 002/003 interface, and again, Pro Tools would not run if it did not detect an interface.

When Pro Tools 9 was released, Avid did away with the LE hardware test and moved to testing for an iLok license. This allowed peoplle to use any interface of their choice. I'm not sure about the M-Powered version 9, maybe that still tested for an M-Audio interface?

Please BE VERY AWARE, although the upgrade options still cover M-Powered versions of Pro Tools versions 6-9, the ability to upgrade LE versions up to and including version 8 WAS TERMINATED by Avid at the end of 2014.

We are aware that Sweetwater and a few other online retailers are still advertising those LE upgrades, because someone else has already reported in another thread that they bought one, and then Avid refused to give them the free plugins that are part of the current promotion until the end of September.

I think in the end it was said that, after a lot of discussion in the thread, Avid were making some special arrangement for him to have the advertised free plugins, but that they would be closing down that loophole and that others buying later would not get them.

I assume they they will have contacted the online retailers and told them to change the advert so it says you don't get the free plugins if you are upgrading from an LE version of Pro Tools.

So, just be aware of these issues if you decide to buy the upgrade.

[LizziF]

Thank you so much. That was really my question. I couldn't find that other post.

And though even Avid says it will offer the eleven on their site to PT LE upgrades, on Avid it expressly says M-powered which I knew was not Mbox. I remembered seeing them in the stores. Sweetwater still says Mbox on their site. And actually I saw the same info on the Musicians Friend site. So Avid needs to notify them.

Well, that settles it. I guess I am upgrading the 10/12.
Thanks. :)

[seanbil]

Originally Posted by LizziF

...
Would it be better to upgrade the 7.4? Or just use the 10/11 for the upgrade? Thoughts?

I actually thought I saw a thread on this, but looked back 2 weeks and couldn't find it.

Thanks for your help!

It would be to your advantage to upgrade the LE license instead of the 10/11 license if the option is still available at Sweetwater, because the LE license is just about worthless at this point. However, for the reasons that nigelpry mentioned, you might run into some resistance from Avid regarding the Eleven promotion if you go that route. The Avid store still hasn't listed LE as an exclusion as of this writing, so it's a bit of a gamble if you want to try it.

I think the thread that you're referring to is the one in the "Pro Tools Licensing" forum. A forum member named, Spydog1985 was originally disqualified from the Eleven promotion because Avid discontinued the option to upgrade LE licenses at the start of this year. However, authorized retailers, such as Sweetwater, still had inventory of that discontinued product. For that technicality, it appears that Avid made good on the promotion after all.

With only six more days left in the offer, and so few LE upgrades outstanding, I'm guessing that Avid is going to waive their exclusion of LE from the Eleven promo if they haven't already updated the terms of the offer on their store. However, take note that it may still take some serious leg work to claim that promotion even though Avid is now aware of the issue.

The advice I would give is to double-check the Avid store for the terms of the promotion itself and not necessarily what they're currently selling as upgradeable products on their store. (See Avid Store URL: https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductD...03&&store=shop). Then, go to an authorized Avid retailer and make sure that they are advertising the Eleven promotion for the exact product that you wish to upgrade. If you at least do this, then you'll increase the likelihood that Avid will honor your request for the free Eleven plugin during the qualifying period. Good luck!

[LizziF]

Thanks Seanbil. After looking at everything and talking to the guy at Sweetwater, I ended up just upgrading the 10/11.

Although I don't think both the MBox2 micro and mini were used for upgrades, I couldn't remember which came with what version. And I could only find the Serial number for the 8 that I used to upgrade to 9/10/11. (I actually got the 9 with the 10/11 upgrade option). I decided I didn't want to deal with the mess. Also, the 7.4 is the last version that works with my old MBox and my old iMac. Only because I have old sessions that were done on a friend's 6.1 system. I thought I saved them all in a format that could be read by my PC. But more than once, I've had to go back and find missing tracks.

Hopefully I will have more time now that I'm no longer going to non-music related school in addition to my job.

[seanbil]

Originally Posted by LizziF

Thanks Seanbil. After looking at everything and talking to the guy at Sweetwater, I ended up just upgrading the 10/11.

...I decided I didn't want to deal with the mess. Also, the 7.4 is the last version that works with my old MBox and my old iMac. Only because I have old sessions that were done on a friend's 6.1 system. I thought I saved them all in a format that could be read by my PC. But more than once, I've had to go back and find missing tracks...

That's a really valid point about reading-in sessions from older versions of Pro Tools. There are already some minor issues opening older PT sessions inside PT12. Personally, I wouldn't trust any later version of Pro Tools to accurately reproduce the data in old session files given how difficult it is for Avid to release software updates that are bug free. So it's probably asking too much that every piece of information from those old sessions be 100% accounted for during import. For the same reason as you, I cannot give up my old PT licenses.

Additionally, I don't know why Avid is so adamant about taking away older licenses that we paid for. It's not as if they are rewriting Pro Tools from scratch every time they release a new version. So it only makes sense that as we pay for the incremental cost to upgrade, that access to our previous version(s) not be simultaneously removed.

In contrast to Avid's policy, I believe that Steinberg allows you to hold onto whatever Cubase licenses that you previously owned when you upgrade. And this is the only policy that truly makes sense for an industry that invests hundreds of hours of labor into projects that must be archived. What good are those archives if we have no guarantee that the work we put into them will be faithfully interpreted by the latest version of software? The only way to have any confidence in those archives is to have access to the actual software versions from which they came. Hence, this is a part of the reason why there's so much reluctance from professionals to perpetually upgrade. So when the day comes that Avid strips away my "archive" licenses is the day that I stop upgrading.

[LizziF]

I agree. I don't know why they take it away. It's not like you can sell it. Or at least not an upgradeable version.

I've had Sonar forever also. Their upgrades are usually worth the price for the additional plugins/virtual instruments (and frankly, they are usually about $99) So I upgrade. The only issue has been some of the older versions don't work with the newer OS. But I currently have X2, X3 and Platinum on my computer. They didn't require the older version to be removed when loading the new version. And? The only reason I keep X2 around is that there were a couple of virtual instruments that were only licensed to work with X1 and X2.

Though truthfully? I don't really need them. I have way too many plugins and virtual instruments. I keep hoping one of them will actually play the music for me. So far? EZ Keys has been a lifesaver. Actually playing instruments requires more coordination than I have.

[seanbil]

I used Sonar years ago. It was excellent for MIDI but I had a horrendous time getting it to work with audio tracks. I expect that it is much improved by now, but my impression of it is indelibly tarnished to this day. Of the licenses that you currently own, I think that Cubase is the most interesting of them all. I was looking through the Cubase Pro spec sheet and it reads like a Pro Tools wish list.

Yeah, it probably would be a good idea to consolidate your efforts to a single DAW at some point, because it's so easy to dump money into software that you may not use very often. However, if you really like Pro Tools then that's a tough decision because Vanilla is still nothing more than HD's baby brother… and HD is really just the top tool for post. So that says a lot about how far Vanilla is from being an ideal tool musicians and composers.

Steinberg found a way to make Cubase Pro and Nuendo two distinct products for two distinct purposes. Consequently, its customers don't complain about the differences between their upgrade prices because they're buying them for very different reasons. Hopefully Avid will take a page out of the Steinberg book and do something similar for Vanilla. Giving away Eleven was a great start in that direction, except for the part where they turned it into a promotion. At some point Avid is going to need to add real value to Vanilla or else its competition is just going to increase their lead.

Based on a recent user poll conducted by Music Radar, Pro Tools ranked 8th out of 20 and behind competitors; Sonar, Cubase Pro, Reaper, Studio One, and Logic Pro as the best DAW of 2015. (Music Radar poll: http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/te...d-today-238905). I think that most of the people that participated in the poll and voted for Pro Tools were probably on Vanilla, and therefore, were most likely musicians and hobbyists. So getting ranked behind Sonar, Cubase Pro, and Studio One (a relative newcomer) just demonstrates how Vanilla really lacks the sort of value that Avid's competitors are providing their music customers. FWIW, most of the people that I work with use Logic Pro.