Mac Mini 2011/2012 ProTools and CPU heat issues

[propower]

I have been running a new 2012 MacMini (2.6 quad i7) for a couple of weeks (as potential 2009 MacPro replacement). Performance has been equal or better than the MP but the concern I have is that under 15% or more load the CPU temps are in the 80's to low 90's. Go to 25% load and CPU temps hang at ~94degC. Fan is not too bad (maybe 3500rpm or so). - the MacPro hangs at ~60degC no matter what load it sees...

So I know the thermal design in the 2011 is similar and since ProTools is the use this one will have I am looking for input from Mini owners who have been running pro tools and whether they have had any issues related to heat, thermal cycling, CPU throttling, excessive fan noise, reliability, etc.

Of course anyone is welcome to join in but input from real world users is what I would love to see. Thanks much in advance!

-Lee

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by propower

the MacPro hangs at ~60degC no matter what load it sees...

Exactly why it's the "pro" workstation designed to high CPU loads. Mini computers are not servers, they're just computers made to be small not powerful. Sure, a current Mac Mini has plenty of MOMENTARY power but that's just it. The thing cannot sustain loads for hours.

[raomcz]

propower, thanks a lot for your reply on another topic.

I'm not so sure, but I think the heat problems might be with INTEL HD 4000 + Fan Design. Mac Mini doesn't come with a dedicated graphic card anymore. I tested Pro Tools on 3 systems these days:

1 - Hackintosh i5 2.5GHz - Sandy Bridge + HD 5770 Video Board + with a lot of FANS. I don't have any issues with temperatures (runs about 50ºC - 60ºC). CPU Load at 20% in Pro Tools. => Dedicated Video board + 4 Fans in a big pack.

2 - MBA 11'' i7 2.0GHz (Mid 2012 / Intel HD4000 ) - Ivy Bridge. MBA is having issues with temperature (runs about 80ºC - 90ºC). CPU Load at 35% in Pro Tools. => Integrated video board + 1 internal Fan in a small pack.

3 - MB Pro Retina 15.4 i7 2.6 GHz - Ivy Bridge (same Mac Mini processor) + Dedicated Internal Video Board. I dont have any issues with temperatures (runs about 50ºC - 60ºC). CPU Load at 19% in Pro Tools. => Dedicated video board + 2 internal Fans in a small pack.

[propower]

Originally Posted by raomcz

3 - MB Pro Retina 15.4 i7 2.6 GHz - Ivy Bridge (same Mac Mini processor) + Dedicated Internal Video Board. I dont have any issues with temperatures (runs about 50ºC - 60ºC). CPU Load at 19% in Pro Tools. => Dedicated video board + 2 internal Fans in a small pack.

And thanks for your reply on this one!

I am interested in more Retina results. Can you try this at 30% and 50% loads just to see what it does? The thermal design seems fundamentally different on these vs minis, imacs etc.

FWIW: Setting PT up at 17% load on the mini and setting the internal fan to be 2400rpm (not loud at all) and using a low rpm fan aimed at the back of the mini gave CPUA ~70degC and CPU1 (hotspot?) ~78degC in stat.

[propower]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Exactly why it's the "pro" workstation designed to high CPU loads. Mini computers are not servers, they're just computers made to be small not powerful. Sure, a current Mac Mini has plenty of MOMENTARY power but that's just it. The thing cannot sustain loads for hours.

I hear you... MP is the pro end - beat on all day at any load ---

but... are you sure the mini can't sustain 40% load 94degC CPU all day long??? I have run it for hours on end there (internal fan ~2400 or so) with no ill effect other than my own pain at seeing the temp.

what if we look at the Mini as a one to two year machine costing literally 1/4 the price of a MP and that it CAN do our audio work. And since as audio guys we don't "beat on them" like video guys but use moderate steady loads. And finally what if we turn the temp monitoring program off, ignore what the machine is running at, let the fans do their minimal job, let the temps go to the mid 90's when they want and just replace with next better model every 1.5 years or so whilst covered under extended Applecare so that if it did "kill itself from heat" we just get a new one?? How bad is this approach? Is there really any evidence that if you just let it do its crappy thermal design that there is any premature failures, throttling (at pro tools loads) etc...

Yes - I am a recovering EE design engineer and I don't like what they have done. Doesn;t mean that it isn't totally eaual to the task I want it to do... (hence this thread).

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by propower

are you sure the mini can't sustain 40% load 94degC CPU all day long??? I have run it for hours on end there (internal fan ~2400 or so) with no ill effect other than my own pain at seeing the temp.

No, I'm not sure. And I don't know whether you mean to use it five days a week ten hours a day, or is it just one occasional day every now and then.

But I'm sure it's not going to last very long if you choose to overdo it, because it is basically a laptop computer (just differently shaped). Laptops don't like heat, and there really is no air inside the Mini, so you should at least think of running it inside a refrigerator or something, because when the case gets even noticeably hot the inside is almost melting.

No I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it might not be the brightest idea.

[Brandonx1]

According to intel, 90+ degrees is too hot for any I series CPU. So, you'd be running the risk, every single time, of failure. This means you can not rely on the daw for mission critical work. I wouldn't risk a clients time and my reputation on a gamble like that.

[TimNielsen]

The Mac Mini comes as a 'server' model, which would indicate to me that it's intended to be a capable of constant and long term use.

I know a couple of people running PT on their Mac Minis and so far, no one has reported any problems.

Pretty staggering that the current Mac Mini as more powerful than a 2009 Mac Pro. Sigh.

Makes you wonder what Apple might finally release next year as a 'Pro' computer.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by TimNielsen

The Mac Mini comes as a 'server' model, which would indicate to me that it's intended to be a capable of constant and long term use.

Yes there are Server Minis, but it basically means it has server license and two hard drives instead of one (someone told me those are better quality hard drives but I wouldn't trust that info as those still need to be 2,5" drives). It is no indication of being able to sustain 100% CPU loads for 24/7 work. In fact, not many servers do much work -- their purpose is just "to be there" and they're mostly idle. Workstations do lot of work and are designed to deal with heat.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by propower

And thanks for your reply on this one!

I am interested in more Retina results. Can you try this at 30% and 50% loads just to see what it does? The thermal design seems fundamentally different on these vs minis, imacs etc.

FWIW: Setting PT up at 17% load on the mini and setting the internal fan to be 2400rpm (not loud at all) and using a low rpm fan aimed at the back of the mini gave CPUA ~70degC and CPU1 (hotspot?) ~78degC in stat.

Actually where you have the fan aimed is NOT the place to do it. That little slot at the back of the mini is it's air output - at least it is on my mid-2010 model. Not exactly sure where they pull the air in from but I'd guess the slot on the superdrive which the newer versions don't have.

I know mine gets hot just running some HD video from YouTube; have never seen 3500 rpm on the fan though. Typically at 160F I see fan speeds of 2200 to 2400 rpm. Normal room temp operation with no video from YT is about 1800 rpm.