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  #61  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:44 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxes View Post
Naysayers or not, this is a random bug, meaning it only seems to happen at certain tempos (which you are aware).

I do not have the time to do tests at different tempos & such to definitely reproduce this bug. Music what I do for a living & I have clients & deadlines to adhere to.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY TO YOU THIS IS A BUG.
It's not my job to prove anything to naysayers, Avid by their own admission are aware that PT was this sample rounding bug http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...ow_To/en430955
(and yes it does affect midi clips which I know has nothing to do with SR - the bug seems to affect accurate copying, duplicating or repeating clips).
Alright mate chill out we're all pros here. I'm in agreement with you. What's all the shouting about? Jeez.

I have however got many bugs squashed by providing clear-cut examples that are reproducible by the AVID team. If you can't be arsed to spend a bit of down time working through it then you're gonna just have to live with it.
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  #62  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:28 AM
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foxes foxes is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrambler View Post
Alright mate chill out we're all pros here. I'm in agreement with you. What's all the shouting about? Jeez.

I have however got many bugs squashed by providing clear-cut examples that are reproducible by the AVID team. If you can't be arsed to spend a bit of down time working through it then you're gonna just have to live with it.
I'm not shouting, I'm reiterating the point that I've said several times clearly!

This bug is too random to for me to "arsed" to spend my non downtime to replicate.......as you can read it has been with PT for YEARS.

You're right I can either live with it - or I can vent my frustrations on this forum (as a customer has a right to) or move on to another DAW, which I have said in this thread opening.
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  #63  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:29 AM
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foxes foxes is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

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Originally Posted by stevegalante View Post
Agree with you but, in the end, it's been here for years and it will probably keep us company for more years. For those who suffer from this you just have to find a workaround and deal with that. For me, notes view give me a much better control and it's bug free. I'm sure there are a lot of other "workarounds" we use every minute without even realizing, so really no big deal. That being said I hope it will be corrected in the next decades 😁
Agreed, but I won't hold my breath
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  #64  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:38 AM
innesireinar innesireinar is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegalante View Post
Agree with you but, in the end, it's been here for years and it will probably keep us company for more years. For those who suffer from this you just have to find a workaround and deal with that. For me, notes view give me a much better control and it's bug free. I'm sure there are a lot of other "workarounds" we use every minute without even realizing, so really no big deal. That being said I hope it will be corrected in the next decades 😁
Yes, this it's been here for years, but on audio only. Since pt12 we have to live this on midi clips as well. Never seen this on pt11 and before
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  #65  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:44 AM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxes View Post
Naysayers or not, this is a random bug, meaning it only seems to happen at certain tempos (which you are aware).

I do not have the time to do tests at different tempos & such to definitely reproduce this bug. Music what I do for a living & I have clients & deadlines to adhere to.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY TO YOU THIS IS A BUG.
It's not my job to prove anything to naysayers, Avid by their own admission are aware that PT was this sample rounding bug http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...ow_To/en430955
(and yes it does affect midi clips which I know has nothing to do with SR - the bug seems to affect accurate copying, duplicating or repeating clips).
Not being a naysayer, really just trying to be helpful to you and fully understand what's happening here - Midnight Rambler's video was very clear, and what it demonstrates is not a bug. As to the issues you're having, all I can see from the pics you've posted is that some clips are incorrect lengths, so of course you'll get drift off the grid on repeat pastes. The real question is how/when/why you're getting clips trimmed to incorrect lengths? There's no way for me to know that - I have not seen a clip trimmed/edited in grid mode *not* have its boundaries grid-aligned (unless it's relative grid mode).

Sample rounding is an issue that you need to understand, not a bug, and the Avid post you link to is not a bug report but an explanation of how sample rounding works and how to avoid it. To show that there's a bug, you'd have to show an instance where you trim a clip (or enter trim values) in grid mode and show that the boundaries are in fact not grid aligned. Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, or that there's *not* a bug, but nothing you've shown looks like a bug yet.

best,
rich
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  #66  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:57 AM
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foxes foxes is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

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Originally Posted by innesireinar View Post
Yes, this it's been here for years, but on audio only. Since pt12 we have to live this on midi clips as well. Never seen this on pt11 and before
I'm not exactly sure when this bug came about but it could be when layered editing was introduced.
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  #67  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
Not being a naysayer, really just trying to be helpful to you and fully understand what's happening here - Midnight Rambler's video was very clear, and what it demonstrates is not a bug. As to the issues you're having, all I can see from the pics you've posted is that some clips are incorrect lengths, so of course you'll get drift off the grid on repeat pastes. The real question is how/when/why you're getting clips trimmed to incorrect lengths? There's no way for me to know that - I have not seen a clip trimmed/edited in grid mode *not* have its boundaries grid-aligned (unless it's relative grid mode).

Sample rounding is an issue that you need to understand, not a bug, and the Avid post you link to is not a bug report but an explanation of how sample rounding works and how to avoid it. To show that there's a bug, you'd have to show an instance where you trim a clip (or enter trim values) in grid mode and show that the boundaries are in fact not grid aligned. Again, I'm not saying it can't happen, or that there's *not* a bug, but nothing you've shown looks like a bug yet.

best,
rich
Midnight Rambler's does not demonstrate the bug that myself & innesireinar is having.

My images show random incorrect clip alignment on clips that were duplicated, repeated or alt + manual dragged from original clips that are perfect 4 or 8 bar lengths (all in grid mode not relative grid or slip and with ticks selected from project creation). As you can see on the 3rd of my images the midi event editor shows the note at bar position 17|1|000 but it is out of position in the midi editor and the edit window in image 2 - that is a bug.

As I have said numerous times it is random only affecting some tempos so extremely hard to replicate without extensive tests that are too time consuming to do.
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  #68  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:50 AM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

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Originally Posted by foxes View Post
...As you can see on the 3rd of my images the midi event editor shows the note at bar position 17|1|000 but it is out of position in the midi editor and the edit window in image 2 - that is a bug....
These appear to be off by sub-tick amounts so will not be displayed in the counter. I think I'll pull myself off this thread as I'm clearly not helping you.

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  #69  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:00 AM
midnightrambler midnightrambler is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

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Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
These appear to be off by sub-tick amounts so will not be displayed in the counter. I think I'll pull myself off this thread as I'm clearly not helping you.

best,
rich
So one problem is : the sub-ticks doesn’t show in the counter, and I would argue that this data needs to be displayed in order to be confident that the clip is where you think it is.

Another is : it would appear that for some users, the clips are not conforming to the grid, despite being in ticks mode and using “grid”. I’ve seen this myself, but I have to be honest in that I’m not sure if it’s because I used relative grid, or moved a part from a samples base to a tick base, or maybe some other user-related thing. But the fact that foxes has this problem would suggest that at the very least the way Tools handles MIDI clips is not as intuitive or user-friendly as it could be...
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  #70  
Old 05-29-2019, 07:18 AM
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foxes foxes is offline
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Default Re: Sample Rounding Issue!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightrambler View Post
So one problem is : the sub-ticks doesn’t show in the counter, and I would argue that this data needs to be displayed in order to be confident that the clip is where you think it is.

Another is : it would appear that for some users, the clips are not conforming to the grid, despite being in ticks mode and using “grid”. I’ve seen this myself, but I have to be honest in that I’m not sure if it’s because I used relative grid, or moved a part from a samples base to a tick base, or maybe some other user-related thing. But the fact that foxes has this problem would suggest that at the very least the way Tools handles MIDI clips is not as intuitive or user-friendly as it could be...
In most part I agree.
But I do not believe PT has sub-ticks measurement/divisions as (1) why would a 'Pro' DAW have a measurement/division that it does not register on it's counters or anywhere on the software.....if that be the case then that's just stupid from Avid. (2) If it were sub-ticks then it would be a uniform thing across all clips duplicated, repeated etc together....which it does not do, it is random. And (3) when using the trim tool to manually fix these note discrepancies whether you're in grid, relative grid or slip modes it snaps back to bar division shown in the event editor nowhere in between (alleged sub-ticks).

The way PT handles midi clips is fine, in terms of duplicating, repeating or alt + manual drag, mirror editing etc. I think that the midi capabilities are also fine albeit a tad 'clunky' as more mouse clicks are required to do certain things & could be shortened (steal ideas from other DAWs - they do ). What I miss is having curves available for midi cc data (& automation but that's another thing )

But that aside, the random incorrect alignment of perfect bar length clips with ticks selected from project creation and in grid mode when either duplicated, repeated or alt + manual dragged is an extremely annoying bug that really effects the basis of modern pop, edm composition/production.
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