Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Getting Started

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-2017, 03:39 PM
Mr.H Mr.H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: THE BAY AREA/US
Posts: 6
Default Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Hello, I'm a long time lurker that has visited the board since 2003 when I first purchased my 002r and Allenstein machine. Sadly, the 002r blew up in my face a couple of months back (literally) but the Allenstein (XP 1700+ that could be overclocked but never was), is still alive and kicking and I'm running PT 6.1 on it. In 14 years I've never had a reason to upgrade as I was constantly working on projects, getting clients but, most of all, getting the desired sound the clients wanted (while also working at other studios).

I'm doing an overhaul of my studio and I'm thinking about converting the garage (two car garage and the house is owned) into a studio and going that route. If I don't do that, I plan to just set my booth up in the garage and overhaul the bedroom.

I have a chance to purchase a Pro Control 24 and desk for $1200. Both look to be in great shape from the pics I saw. I also have a chance to purchase a 003 console and PT 8 for $500 and it's in great shape from the pics I saw. However, I have no way to actually test these units outside of the owners doing the Vegas Mode thing as neither have computers that are up and running.

So what are my questions? I'm glad you asked.

1. Are these good deals? I know it's legacy hardware but is the price ok? I'm not worried about using pro tools 12. I'm more concerned with stability. I figure a good PC (have an older one that I built and never used) that has windows 7 (can't remember if home or premium) and I'm fine working with older versions of PT as various studios I have to work out of here in the Bay Area have 6-10.

2. How do I tell which number on the Pro Control is the revision number? I ask because I read that the revisions went up to K? I have access to the serial and model number.

3. According to several people the Pro Control is a glorified mouse and I'd simply be using it as a control surface and using the 002r and outboard gear. Do any of you see a problem with this? Also, can I use the Pro Control with my Allenstein or do I need to upgrade?

4. I know two 002rs could not be used together but does the same hold true for the 003 console and the 002r?

I think that's about it now. I'll grab the specs of the PC I mentioned in question 1 and post those later. If the mods feel this post is in the wrong section, my bad. I read several forums on the website and didn't know which was appropriate so I figured I'd post it here. If this post is not in compliance and needs to be moved, please move it to the appropriate location but do know that I did not intentionally post in the wrong place.

Thanks for reading everyone,

Mr. H
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-13-2017, 04:08 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,488
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
3. According to several people the Pro Control is a glorified mouse and I'd simply be using it as a control surface and using the 002r and outboard gear. Do any of you see a problem with this? Also, can I use the Pro Control with my Allenstein or do I need to upgrade?
By definition the Pro Control is a control surface, it *is* a glorified mouse, (well with a very simple and not very good monitor section as well). Presumably that is what you want or you would not be looking at it.

What audio interface are you going to replace the 002 rack with? If you are going to get a 003 Console why would you add a Pro Control?

The issues here start at what version of Pro Tools you want to run and go from there and making sure your computer is suitable for that, is running a supported OS, your audio interface is compatible. It's OK deciding to run an old version of Pro Tools but you can't hand wave like you are doing. You need to pick a version and work out if stuff is compatible, including plugins. Start with compatibility tables are under the "Additional Resources" link up the top of this DUC web page.

For pricing info check Ebay closed auctions. Be careful of unknown sellers with no history promising you Pro Tools licenses, you might end up with a worthless install CD.

If you plan on asking questions here about your PC please post a Sandra report. See under "Help us help You" up top of any DUC web page.

Personally I would consider hard the chance of taking this opportunity to upgrade to modern systems. Pro Tools 12 on a current PC, with any one of a number of open audio interfaces (not from Avid/Digidesign). If you have not been using a control surface do you need one now or would that be better off put towards an interface or new PC. Good interfaces available from MOTU, UAD, Focusrite, Presonus, and others ... Especially since if you buy something like the Pro Control, you are locking yourself out of running modern versions of Pro Tools.... for that reason I'd personally value a Pro Control as virtually freeware, give them away material.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 11-13-2017 at 04:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-13-2017, 06:08 PM
Mr.H Mr.H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: THE BAY AREA/US
Posts: 6
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
By definition the Pro Control is a control surface, it *is* a glorified mouse, (well with a very simple and not very good monitor section as well). Presumably that is what you want or you would not be looking at it
Yeah, I simply want a control surface because I'm remodeling. I can use a mouse and keyboard no problem, its just at this point I feel like I'm slowing down. BTW, I was calling the Control 24 by the wrong name. My bad, was running on fumes.

Quote:
What audio interface are you going to replace the 002 rack with? If you are going to get a 003 Console why would you add a Pro Control?
I have another 002r. After the OG died I grabbed another one and everything has been solid. If I were to grab the Control 24 and the 003 then I'd absolutely convert the garage. I'd use the Control 24 and 002r for mixing and the 003 would be used for tracking the midi stuff and other things. So I'd basically have two rooms.

Quote:
The issues here start at what version of Pro Tools you want to run and go from there and making sure your computer is suitable for that, is running a supported OS, your audio interface is compatible. It's OK deciding to run an old version of Pro Tools but you can't hand wave like you are doing. You need to pick a version and work out if stuff is compatible, including plugins. Start with compatibility tables are under the "Additional Resources" link up the top of this DUC web page.
I feel comfortable on versions 6 to 10. I know the OS is supported, I also know I would need to format NTFS instead of fat32 and other things. I'll do some more reading in the link too. Also, some of the links I clicked on, which offer updates to certain versions, are no longer live and link back to the AVID website. Is there anyway around this?

Quote:
For pricing info check Ebay closed auctions. Be careful of unknown sellers with no history promising you Pro Tools licenses, you might end up with a worthless install CD.
I did and these guys are slightly cheaper. They're both local to my area so I can actually see the gear, just can't really test like how I want to because they don't have computers. One guy sold his HD rig and Mac and the 003 guy never could get his computer to work properly with his 003 so he gave up on recording.

Quote:
Personally I would consider hard the chance of taking this opportunity to upgrade to modern systems. Pro Tools 12 on a current PC, with any one of a number of open audio interfaces (not from Avid/Digidesign). If you have not been using a control surface do you need one now or would that be better off put towards an interface or new PC. Good interfaces available from MOTU, UAD, Focusrite, Presonus, and others ... Especially since if you buy something like the Pro Control, you are locking yourself out of running modern versions of Pro Tools.... for that reason I'd personally value a Pro Control as virtually freeware, give them away material.
This is something to consider as I actually run Reaper on a different PC. I looked into the Omni and could have grabbed one for $1300 with the PCI card but no software from a guy in my area. I'll look more into the other interfaces. The thing is, I really don't like the pricing model of PT right now. From what I understand it's subscription based and I'm not really sold on that. I haven't been using those two control surfaces anywhere but I've used some from m audio, mackie and some of the avid artist stuff.

Darryl Ramm, THANK YOU for the sound advice (no pun intended) and helping me out. From what I gather I need to consider other alternatives and not lock myself out and that I may be in for a headache with the Control 24.

Last edited by Mr.H; 11-13-2017 at 06:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-13-2017, 06:58 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,488
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

I'm lost now, wether you are talking Pro Control or the Control 24? But both are end of life and unfortunately not supported beyond Pro Tools 10, i.e. they will not work at all. Both should be available at very low cost if you can live with Pro Tools 10 or earlier... and that largely comes down to giving up modern Pro Tools features (like not having 64-bit memory and hassles with lots of VIs, no disk cache (in non-HD), no VCA (in non-HD), no track freeze or commit, ... there are quite a few good reasons to be on Pro Tools 12.) and needing to stay on older operating systems.

Omni interface? Again my comment would be why look at old gear or Avid only hardware? An Omni locks you into needing Pro Tools HD software, an expensive upgrade from what you have now (actually it's not an upgrade, its a $2,500 license purchase if buying retail, plus $399/year), etc. You likely can do all you need with Pro Tools standard, non HD and any choice of open interface, many now available in the same 1U form factor as an Omni with a lot more capabilities. If you already have a HD/Digilink rig then an Omni might make a lot of sense to add. Or if you use one in a work studio and want the same at home... sure great reason to get one.

There are lots of low-cost HUI surfaces that give you some control of Pro Tools, up to the (Eucon) Avid S3 at ~$5k. I'm not a fan of the Artist Mix, but that's another option to look at.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:03 PM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,737
Default Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.H View Post
I have a chance to purchase a Pro Control 24 and desk for $1200. Both look to be in great shape from the pics I saw. I also have a chance to purchase a 003 console and PT 8 for $500 and it's in great shape



So what are my questions? I'm glad you asked.



1. Are these good deals? I know it's legacy hardware but is the price ok? I'm not worried about using pro tools 12. I'm more concerned with stability. I figure a good PC (have an older one that I built and never used) that has windows 7 (can't remember if home or premium) and I'm fine working with older versions of PT as various studios I have to work out of here in the Bay Area have 6-10.



2. How do I tell which number on the Pro Control is the revision number? I ask because I read that the revisions went up to K? I have access to the serial and model number.



3. According to several people the Pro Control is a glorified mouse and I'd simply be using it as a control surface and using the 002r and outboard gear. Do any of you see a problem with this? Also, can I use the Pro Control with my Allenstein or do I need to upgrade?



4. I know two 002rs could not be used together but does the same hold true for the 003 console and the 002r?





Mr. H

1. A Pro Control and a Control 24 are two different things

A good price for a working pro control is $350

2. Revision are on the main tag under the unit.

3. Yes as D Ram said it matters more what OS you use. But the ProbControl profile is loaded with Pro Tools, so anything up to PT10.3.10 will work with the pro control

4 right only one interface or 003. Same as the 002 info you had.
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.

Last edited by YYR123; 11-13-2017 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:18 PM
Mr.H Mr.H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: THE BAY AREA/US
Posts: 6
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
I'm lost now, wether you are talking Pro Control or the Control 24?
Control 24. I have been looking at so many things today that said "control" and "pro" that I was even confused when I replied to your initial post.

My apologies, man. It's a Control 24.

Quote:
But both are end of life and unfortunately not supported beyond Pro Tools 10, i.e. they will not work at all. Both should be available at very low cost if you can live with Pro Tools 10 or earlier... and that largely comes down to giving up modern Pro Tools features (like not having 64-bit memory and hassles with lots of VIs, no disk cache (in non-HD), no VCA (in non-HD), no track freeze or commit, ... there are quite a few good reasons to be on Pro Tools 12.) and needing to stay on older operating systems.
I can use 10 or anything earlier. I'm not too worried about 64 bit stuff, don't use too many Vis (I have three keyboard workstations, three very large drum machines and three sound modules plus samples and loops I can load).

BTW, an option is to go with the Slate Raven or purchase a touch screen from Asus (I believe it was Asus) and use that.

Quote:
Omni interface? Again my comment would be why look at old gear or Avid only hardware? An Omni locks you into needing Pro Tools HD software, an expensive upgrade from what you have now, etc. You likely can do all you need with Pro Tools standard, non HD and any choice of open interface, many now available in the same 1U form factor as an Omni with a lot more capabilities. If you already have a HD/Digiliink rig then an Omni may might make a lot of sense to add. Or if you use one in a work studio and want the same at home... sure great reason to get one.
Omni is old at this point? I thought the thing was fairly new! The reason why I looked into the Avid stuff first is due to being familiar with the lineup. And it's not that I have a preference for PT as I use it and Reaper. IMHO, and generally speaking, all DAWS do the same thing. It's just a matter of what keyboard shortcuts, button presses or mouse scrolls you need to do to get the job done. So believe me, I'm not stuck or sold on PT or Avid hardware. I'm looking into other options but, like I said, it was a familiarity thing.


Quote:
There are lots of low-cost HUI surfaces that give you some control of Pro Tools, up to the (Eucon) Avid S3 at ~$5k. I'm not a fan of the Artist Mix, but that's another option to look at.
I looked into the S3 and see support is continued for the next four years.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...-rack-products

However, my mind now tells me if I shouldn't spend more than $2k on a surface as there is much more I can purchase with the money. And again, I'm only considering the control surfaces because I feel they can speed up my workflow (I'm slowing down) and because the prices appear to be lower than what I'm seeing on ebay. The downside is I'm locked to PT (not sure if I can use third party software with the control 24 but with the ASIO drivers I know I can use the 002r as I've used it with Cubase and Acid).

So I get it, I'm basically paying money to lock myself into old hardware at this point but hell man, my clients are happy with the sound they're getting (again I have outboard gear so that plays into it as well) so it's not like I need the new stuff. But trust me, I'm considering everything you're laying on me and do appreciate it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:23 PM
Mr.H Mr.H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: THE BAY AREA/US
Posts: 6
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YYR123 View Post
1. A Pro Control and a Control 24 are two different things

A good price for a working pro control is $350

2. Revision are on the main tag under the unit.

3. Yes as D Ram said it matters more what OS you use. But the ProbControl profile is loaded with Pro Tools, so anything up to PT10.3.10 will work with to pro control

4 right only one interface or 003. Same as the 002 info you had.
1. My bad. It's a Control 24. Like I told Darryl Ramm, I've been looking at so many "controls" and "pro" today that I had them confused. I was burned out, lol. But it's definitely a Control 24.

2. Under the unit? Like I need to lift it up and look? Ok no problem. Like I said, I have pics of the model number and serial which are on the back. I'll lift the unit up and look if I go to see it.

3. Windows 7 Professional.

4. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:32 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,488
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

The Omni is ~7 years old, so just as an example, yes it's old and I suspect near end of sale life, Avid will continue to support for more years after that happens. It's unclear what Avid is doing with it and other legacy Digilink interfaces as they now rebadge the (very nice) MTRX interface from DAD. It would not surprise me if say they worked to get a lower-config/price DAD box to market.

Official announced end of support dates for Avid products are at http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/e...-support-dates

You should be aware of those if looking at older equipment.

It sounds like you just may need to spend more time looking around at modern options for interfaces and control surfaces before making a devision. Including non-Avid product.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:46 PM
Mr.H Mr.H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: THE BAY AREA/US
Posts: 6
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Quote:
It sounds like you just may need to spend more time looking around at modern options for interfaces and control surfaces before making a devision. Including non-Avid product.
Interfaces? Yes. Control surfaces are more of a preference and not a requirement but I hear you.

And thanks for the link.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-13-2017, 07:50 PM
YYR123's Avatar
YYR123 YYR123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 13,737
Default Re: Hello, long time lurker with several questions.

Icon surfaces are at their best prices ever.

Solid stable and super quality and user experience!!!
__________________
Daniel
HDX - PT12.5.1 - HD I/O 16x8x8
Win10-Pro (v1709)- 6 Core i7-6850k - ASUS X99 Deluxe ii
D-Command Main Unit - 'Ole Blue


http://www.sknoteaudio.com/ plugins rock and are affordable.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A few Windows questions (from a long time Mac user...) leftalive Pro Tools 12 6 03-31-2017 07:40 AM
Long time 001 user with upgrade questions Folkcafe 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 5 09-23-2007 07:30 PM
It's been a long time... brian brilliant 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 02-06-2007 11:47 AM
1st time caller, long time listener brill bedroom 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 03-23-2005 06:12 PM
Long, long Time loading PTLE on G4 DP 1.25!! pockets745 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 11-30-2004 05:09 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:31 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com