Master Fader EQ plugs -

[cary chilton]

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588 <-- Russian Fantasy


In a new original I did over the weekend "Russian Fantasy" I got a very decent mix.

There is only 0.24 of the L2007 helping spikes, and NO Eq whatsoever on the master fader. (I think all around, it is my best mixing job to date -only been learning DAW since August-September)

I just bought new plugs last month, Waves Native Renmax and Native SSL. I also have the complete Massey suite.


However, when I added SSL EQ or the RenEQ I felt ( call me nuts) that the EQ plugs made the mix worse. Worse by, taking away some of the "air" I worked fu@#in hard to maintain in the mix and generally kept the definition but seemed to make a little duller, less exciting.

What are some great Master BUSS EQ's folks?
Does anyone EVER use the SSL EQ on the master?

[LIMiT]

Hi,

the answer most will give is no.

What is it that you are trying to fix/accomplish with an EQ on the 2buss?

No matter what you answer, the problems exist on the individual tracks, and should be addressed there.

If you have to use an EQ on the 2buss, use subtractive EQ, very minutely.

-LIMiT

[Stiff]

If it doesn't work for you then don't use it, it's that simple
When I EQ the master I generally use very small settings.

[cary chilton]

you guys are funny. Sometimes EQ on the master fader (submixes) can help with clarity or add color.

Thanks anyway gang

[LIMiT]

you guys are funny. Sometimes EQ on the master fader (submixes) can help with clarity or add color.

Thanks anyway gang

Don't sell yourself short,..you're pretty funny yourself.


If you are EQ'ing the master fader, you are f'king with the balance of your entire mix. Add or subtract any highs...it'll effect the lows....etc.

You are essentially going against a desicion you made when you were mixing the individual tracks.

You want clarity?....whats not clear?


If you're an experienced ME with a killer room and awesome external EQ's...by all means..EQ away..even then ... use very very little.


(BTW - MASTER FADER and SUBMIXES are 2 different things. A submix is summing a group of trax together within a mix,...while a Master Fader is what you are summing all your submixes to. In a large track count mix,...I would have a 'Drum Submix'(16 trax down to 2), a bass guitar submix (3 trax down to 1) and a bk vox submix (8-10 trax down to 2)...then these would be all going to my MASTER FADER...which goes to tape. So...yes..I WOULD use EQ on submixes..if need be..but NOT the MASTER FADER)

Cheers,

-LIMiT

[JFreak]

I WOULD use EQ on submixes..if need be..but NOT the MASTER FADER

If you need to for example cut 400Hz from all submixes, then, how is it different to cut all stems compared to cutting the 2-track master mix? Yes, I do agree that most master mix processing should be handed over to the mastering engineer, but if your mix needs EQ'ing in your opinion, then you do EQ it, right?

The only rule is: there are no other rules.

[peppertree]

If the user is mastering their own stuff, there's nothing wrong with eq'ing the whole shebang. If they are compressing the 2-bus (they mentioned SSL bundle) then they are doing post-compression EQ. Someone as smart as you ought to know there's a difference between pre-compression and post-compression EQ! (Dontcha hate it when people use that "someone as smart as you..." line? I did it because you're churlishly berating someone for their approach to art.)

The very best mastering EQ I've heard so far for PT is Flux EPure. It won't affect the other frequencies and has no phasiness. The EQ sounds as if it was designed for people with $50,000 hifi systems. Priced accordingly ($600 standalone, or $900 with Solera compression).

[Stiff]

The very best mastering EQ I've heard so far for PT is Flux EPure. It won't affect the other frequencies and has no phasiness. The EQ sounds as if it was designed for people with $50,000 hifi systems. Priced accordingly ($600 standalone, or $900 with Solera compression).

Well, almost... it was made for Pyramix systems
I second Epure, it's great.

[cary chilton]

My link above was a quick original I did on the weekend. About 25 tracks. I DID NOT use an EQ and nor did I need it. I used the L2007 for tiny bit of limiting (.24) so I am quite proud of my novice mixing efforts - not too shabby for only learning about mixing for about 3-4 months now.

Anyway, I bought my plug bundles SSL4000, Rennmax, and the Massey plugs based on a recommendation from forum members, and an email from Charles Dye, ITB guru. I actually don't anything about the proper use of these plugs. Despite this, I used them on my stems with apparent success.
I also used the SSL COMP ( with the analog) and the DUY WIDE L2007 and powR shape 1 for my master fader. Since I was mastering myself for a demo.

Here are some questions:



If I want to submit this song to a ME, can or should I still use my SSL comp on the master? Can I still use when sending to a ME DUY wide plug ( as I saw on my Charles Dye DVD)?? I know that I should not use a limiter ( though Dye did on his hit mix Livida Loca).

Are all these EQ plugs that I read ppl using (on Gearslutz) basically only for individual tracks and submixing as Limit suggested? If so, that is why my ear naturally told me NOT to use an EQ on the master, even on adjustments of .3db on a frequency ( I could hear a detriment to the "air" or liveness of the mix). I thought it was that the renEQ wasn't good enough. I thought maybe the sony Oxford or URS or UAD plugs might be much better.... but it Limit is right, then maybe no EQ on the master will be better than the original mix (for reasons I just mentioned).

Silly question (due lack of experience ) when I bounce a drum submix, guitars submix etc should I use a masterfader ??????? For additional EQ, compressor options and to monitor the summed levels?? or not needed ?

What do you pro's choose to bounce for your groups???? Do you ever stem rhythm and lead gtr together in a submix? or do you ever stem bass and drums together? OR Is it ALWAYS better to keep your submixes as performances specific as possible???? ( for eq'ing etc)

Last, where are some recommended ME I can contact? What is a usual price per song?
Do I just need to bounce all the tracks in the master session 24 bit, multimono?
Should send my demo and session .ptf file? Should I keep my fade out or let the ME do that?
Do I need to request that he put it to tape ( something Limit mentioned-that I forgot) or do most do that already?

[LIMiT]

Ok..first...didn't mean to 'berate' anyone...i'm trying to help...

- yes... if all submixes needed 400hz notched out, yes...there is no difference than subtracting that with an EQ on the MF...I agree...

I'm not familiar with the EQ that was mentioned...but an EQ that doesn't induce phase would be amazing.

Silly question (due lack of experience ) when I bounce a drum submix, guitars submix etc should I use a masterfader ??????? For additional EQ, compressor options and to monitor the summed levels?? or not needed ?

What do you pro's choose to bounce for your groups???? Do you ever stem rhythm and lead gtr together in a submix? or do you ever stem bass and drums together? OR Is it ALWAYS better to keep your submixes as performances specific as possible???? ( for eq'ing etc)

Last, where are some recommended ME I can contact? What is a usual price per song?
Do I just need to bounce all the tracks in the master session 24 bit, multimono?
Should send my demo and session .ptf file? Should I keep my fade out or let the ME do that?
Do I need to request that he put it to tape ( something Limit mentioned-that I forgot) or do most do that already?

When you're bouncing submixes (or stems) it's not necessary to have a master fader, as you can see the peaks in the submix meter.

I used to have to submix instruments togeher all the time when my PC wasn't fast enough to handle a high track count. Then, you would make the individual tracks inactive (so they're no longer draining CPU power) and continue to use the stem in the mix. If i needed to EQ the bass...and it was submixed with the drums...I would then have to make the individual tracks active again...do my EQ, and re-bounce the stem.

Regarding the ME questions, they should all be asked to the ME. Each ME is different and have preferences on how they would like media brought to them.
Google 'Massive Mastering'. John is the man.

Again...only trying to help...and as mentioned above....there are no rules, but there are better 'practices'.

Cheers,

LIMiT


**edit** here is a link to some submission guidlines that may help you with organization when submitting project to anyone else for further work http://www.charlesdye.com/ptguidelines2.0.pdf