Alternatives to Pro Tools - Pro and Cons

[Mattiasnyc]

Originally Posted by Marcel Risberg

I'm keeping my eyes on Pyramix and Nuendo for reasons of post work. Would love to hear some pros and cons from switchers.

I don't need to switch just yet, my PT11 rig is functioning quite okay as of this time. But, should Avid make the keeping my HD license to difficult and infected I will just choose another tool work my work. Not that complicated.

I do the majority of work on PT HD but also a decent amount on Nuendo. I think the pros/cons are relative to the position you're in actually, they're that close. But a few things that stick out as a user of both:

Nuendo +:

- More customizable. You can configure not just windows but also menu items, channel widths (fluidly) key commands etc all to your liking.

- Offline Process History is like a list of offline Audiosuite processes that you can access on a per-clip basis. So if you go in and EQ then compress then DeEss an individual clip you can access that processing way later without worrying about an undo-history. Once you open up that list you can pick your EQ process, open up that plugin, change the parameters, and then re-render with the following processes then rerendering based on that new EQ processing.

- Built-in media management. Think of it as Soundminer but with tradeoffs. It allows you to search, tag, audition and instantiate not just audio files, but also VST/VSTi presets, channel settings, midi files, video files etc.

- "Control Room". It's like the monitor section of a console or a dedicated monitor controller. It "taps" the mixer for signals and allows you to route them to dedicated outputs (i.e. speaker sets and headphone mixes), solo/dim/mute sources (i.e. full mix, stems, splits etc), "listen" which dims all other sources by a preset amount so you can focus on that one signal, route rear surrounds to front L/R, downmix, insert plugins in the monitor path and more: without breaking the signal in the mixer!

- Built-in loudness metering, loudness track and loudness "normalization" on export.

- ADR "taker" functionality for much easier ADR work.

- Included iozono surround panner plugin.

- The ability to have more than one project open at the same time (although only one is active) and copy/paste timeline content between them.

- "Automation passes" which creates a branch of automation passes. If you start down one road and want to try something else you can create a new "node" and head down a different road. Clicking on different "nodes" in the "tree" will give you different automation 'versions'. So if you have an action sequence and a grenade goes off and you want to try the "ears ringing" effect but A/B it with a less 1st person view you can create a "branch" for each and A/B between them.



Nuendo -:

- More customizable. It comes at a cost, which in my opinion is that it feels less "solid" although that certainly isn't the case. It's just that with so much stuff able to be changed you almost get overwhelmed at times, especially if the app isn't responding the way you expect it to; was it because you changed a setting, misunderstood something, or is it really a bug? Also, one great thing about less customization and fixed key commands is that I have to do very little to get started on PT, I just sit down and start working. I tweak maybe one or two things in the preferences dialog and that's it. With Nuendo the entire key command set might be switched. There's always the default, but if your personal preference is custom then you need to bring it wherever you go.

- VCAs coming in the next version due Q2 hopefully. That's a bit late for something that basic.

- "Groups" still suck in my opinion. Steinberg should have ripped off PT and been done with it. You can work around it, but it's a bit annoying.

- Import Session Data coming the next version, also a bit late, but coming.



All in all I think Nuendo, once it gets VCAs sorted out, is the clearly better and cheaper app. Remember that in any post studio you'll need a monitor controller, some media management, and possibly ADR software with PT, and that all adds up on top of an already more expensive software.

But again, if you're looking to switch I'm not sure it makes sense. You already know PT, it's a great great app, in the US at least it's the standard by far, and you already put money into it.

[Marcel Risberg]

Originally Posted by Mattiasnyc

I do the majority of work on PT HD but also a decent amount on Nuendo. I think the pros/cons are relative to the position you're in actually, they're that close. (...)

Thank you Mattias. That was helpful.

[wunderbread]

SO basically i need a program to make music. I don't have any equipment in terms of mics or an interfacfe but these are my options im looking at to record drums so far:
Sennheiser E604 Dynamic Cardioid Instrument Mic Kit -- tom mics
Shure SM57-LC Cardioid mic -- snare
AKG D112 large diaphragm -bass drum
AKG perception 170 -- hi hat mic
Samson CO2 pencil condensor mics -- 2 overhead mics
TASCAM US-16x08 USB Audio Interface

More or less, i want to attach the mics to my drums, plug into interface, plug interface into laptop and record. Right now i have a 2006 macbook pro, im probably going to upgrade to a 2015 macbook pro 15" and pro tools seems to come in a cd form from what I know. The new 2015 laptops don't have a CD/DVD drive, which would be annoying cause ill have to buy an external one..ANYWAY.
1) Can anyone tell me if there is any other DAW i can use besides Pro tools? for cutting, moving(making the drum hits on time), find bpms of songs, put mp3s of the songs im covering into the project so i can line them up and all that other fancy stuff. I dont know anything about editing audio, but im familiar with editing video and i imagine its not SOOO MUCH different. and I can learn how. But im not too keen on spending $900 on a singular program.
2) Can anyone tell me if the procedure im thinking of will actually work? Like will i be able to just purchase all these things and jump right into recording drums?! i dont know anything about midi or what it is and id prefer to stick with the most simplest way of doing this BUT i also want high quality recordings (which is dependent on the mics mainly from what i know)

Please any help is appreciated and try to make it in terms i will understand LOL as i said, i dont know much about editing audio..ive also never used Pro Tools (only seen it used in front of me)
Thank you everybody :)

[wunderbread]

ALSO i should have mentioned my method for recording will be this. I will do the best to get my drums sounding very good within the DAW, create samples..
record my drums for music, replace the hits i do with the drum samples i created..and the only thing i will be editing is 1) making the hits on time with the metronome (aside from snare ghost notes which will be non-samples for the authenticity) 2) messing around with the overhead mics and hi hat mic because from what ive been told its not the smartest idea to sample cymbals because you want them to ring out and sound authentic whereas drums it's a lot easier to make it sound authentic with samples. thanks! :)

[CME]

Umm. Where to start. Essentially you are correct. Pro tools is actually available as a download. So no need in buying an external disc drive.

However if you're just starting out. Does the interface come with any software? Like a basic version of cubase or something. I would go for an option like that over pro tools. And if you think you must use pro tools, you might consider the rental option. I think it's $29 for a month. Way better to try it out for that, than to spend the $899 or whatever it costs these days, and not like it.

But you're talking about sampling and drum replacement. While not overly complicated. I would work on getting the drums to sound as best they can without sampling. It will be a pain. But in the long run totally worth it. Because mediocre samples aren't going to help much of anything. I've got some Slate Samples that are great, but I never use, because they're not the tones I need. And I didn't realize it at the time.

And lastly. You really should have started a new thread. Maybe an admin can move yours and my posts to a new thread.

[wunderbread]

Well i looked into reaper and it seems okay for what I want i think, and it's only 60$ to buy the full version so it wouldn't be a complete waste if i don't like it you know?

As for the sampling, i think thats the term for it. My friend was recording my audio but moved, and what we would do is i hit the drum like i was doing a sound check, and he got a great sound out of each, saved it, we recorded the song, and when i was done he started replacing each hit i did for lets say the snare with that prerecorded and edited sample (correct me if this is not the right definition of sampling) then he did the same thing for the rest of the kit, drum by drum and for the cymbals he did something different (but don't ask em because i couldn't tell you lol)

I don't think the audio quality came out bad, if you want you can check out the audio on my youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/user/WunderBreadd/videos
thats the method he used to record the audio for all of those videos. and yes you're probably right, i was just reading this thread and had to get my thoughts written down, sorry about that.

[albee1952]

Just my own 2 cents so please take it that way(in the interest of full disclosure, I work at 24 bit/48K on almost everything i do):
Tried Reaper early on; didn't like it at all.
Sat on a friend's CuBase rig(ver. 5 IIRC) and felt like a total idiot.
Can't use Logic as Apple's pricing leaves me cold
Spent a little time with Studio One V3 and it looks promising and has some great features...which I don't really need for the way I work. I will give it more time, but on its own system drive as it hosed my PT install(YMMV)
Every Daw on the market sounds essentially the same(with the exception of Harrison MixBus, which is far too limited at present). Its the hardware that makes any difference
Trying to get my hands on DP8 and Nuendo to give them a trial(so far, no luck).
In the 9 years I have had my studio, nobody has ever needed me to open a ____________ session(insert any DAW name) other than Pro Tools.
Since a properly tuned computer will give excellent performance with PT(and my current rig keeps me very happy), I will continue to use 11 every day, and make a living with it(will continue TRYING 12 until the day that it actually performs as good as 11 for me). For me, PT11 simply delivers whatever I ask of it, 99.5% of the time. Having said that, until 12 actually delivers on its promise, I don't see much reason to upgrade

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Trying to get my hands on DP8 and Nuendo to give them a trial(so far, no luck).

You're having trouble getting the free 30 day demo of DP8? Have you tried lately? The reason I ask is with the imminent drop of DP9 they may have pulled the DP8 demo download from their servers. I can ask over on Motunation about this if you want.

[DonaldM]

For myself, I'll stick with PT. Besides the fact that I've got quite a bit of learning time invested in using it, I just like the way it performs. I've used Cubase, Sonar, Reaper and Reason. Reason is, of course, a much different animal in how proprietary it is, although allowing 3rd party developers to create REs for it has helped. Still use it via Rewire in PT and always will.

I can't see investing a whole bunch of time in learning a new DAW to the same level I understand PT when there won't be that much, if any, actual performance difference.

[mbourque]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Trying to get my hands on DP8 and Nuendo to give them a trial(so far, no luck).

With Nuendo, you'll have the same feeling as in Cubase. I'm confortable with Cubase to write music, but I really don't see myself doing post and heavy edits on it..