Is keeping the AVID mix a bad idea?

[The Chipster]

We are mixing many different shows for both Discovery, and A&E. The producers at our facility are asking us to maintain the AVID audio Mix and just build on it!

Uhhh ok... is this a good Idea or NOT?

I am not so sure this is a good idea personally, but what do you guys think?

[TVPostSound]

Ive been through this, mix as you would normally, but keep the same sense of balance ( music/dialog ) that was
intended by the video editor.

[Pirate Post]

Ive been through this, mix as you would normally, but keep the same sense of balance ( music/dialog ) that was
intended by the video editor.

What he said.

[philper]

I'd basically listen to what they did, esp. as far as FX and music dialog balance goes and how long they carry fades etc, and then do it your own way. Esp. for TV, and esp. for Disco, they can't ask you to both "keep the editor's mix" AND make it all work for all the stems and deliverables that you'll be required to make AND hit the damn dialnorm, RMS and peak standards as specified if you can't
work the show your own way. And why do the editor's get to have all the fun? If you can, call the editor up and find out which aspects of what they did are important to them, and see what else they would have done given the time etc.. (Then do it your own way.)

Philip Perkins CAS

[JKD99]

Exactly. Do what they did, only better.

[Sonida]

There are several problems with bringing the Avid mix into ProTools:

1. It is simply not accurate. I have compared the imported Avid automation to a reference tape on many occasions and the two often do not match. If you want an idea of what the editor is trying to accomplish you have to listen to a reference tape or a mixdown and in reality TV there is rarely time to do a comparison between that and your own mix.

2. Our job is to make it sound better than the editor can, not match them. Unless the editor is Walter Murch, I would trust my ears and my years of experience over any picture editor. Even if the editor(s) is/are sound savvy, they don't have the equipment to create an accurate mix.

3. Due to technical limitations of picture editing software and poor field recording, dialogue is usually too low in the Avid mixes I get. A mixer has the obligation to get the dialogue as clean as possible and present it to the producers as such. If I didn't boost and clean up dialogue that was low in the Avid mix my clients would stop hiring me.

I agree with Philper about having the editor give specific notes. That way you know that you aren't "fixing" what seems like a bad mix.

[Brandonx1]

It seems like what they're asking is to keep the automation that the editor made. Personally, I always do this. I adjust their automation but keep the basic idea of the mix. Most of the time, the dialog gets completely changed. In this case, at least I listened to the original avid mix will editing and can make the mix better without changing intent.
Peace,
Brandon

[tzujan]

As these guys have mentioned, I’ll reference what the editor did by keeping the OMF on the original muted/inactive import tracks. I generally delete all their automation after I have copied the files into my template. Let’s face it, some of the Avid techniques, such making multiple copies of an audio file to get more gain and destructive processing, can be a real pain. Most editors don’t know the first thing about legal levels and compression, and the ones that do, know it’s best that we take care of it. Luckily, I have not worked with too many producers that would even know whether or not I was keeping their editor's automation. “Building on their AVID audio Mix,” in the worst situations, could take forever.

[Sonsey]

I get this from time to time. My first step is usually to play the director/producer the AVID mix on proper speakers in a calibrated room. Once they get over the "it didn't sound like that in the edit suite" stage, then they really don't want to keep that mix anymore Seriously though, having them listen to that mix takes time but does a world of good when they discover all the problems they didn't hear on the AVID.

[bigbadhenchman]

Yeah, right. I've run into this a couple of times. With sfx etc.
"Why can't it sound as loud as in the AVud suite?".
"Because QC will reject it. Unless you're releasing this for theatre only, Dolby Digital. Then yes, we can go fullscale on that gunshot."