Reverb on dialogue - surround mixes

[SZE]

Hi

I had a discussion last week with another mixer regarding the use of reverb on dial in film mixes - the mixer concerned swears by his mantra of basically never putting dial reverb in the surrounds (unless a very specific effect is required), arguing that if you are not very careful, focus and clarity in the dial track can be affected.

He has default reverb sends for dial in a LCR configuration.

I mentioned the merit of using mono reverb on ADR to help match production acoustics, which got me thinking of how users here are mixing dial reverb.

Do you tend to use a normal stereo reverb send, and pan the aux depending on how much surround you want? Or just go straight to a 5.0 (or 5.1!) reverb, and let the reverb profile fill the space?

What other reverb tricks do you employ when mixing dial?

I am referring in general to 'normal' dial, than special effect voices / scenes, etc.

Thanks!

[quadraphonics]

I am not a fan of reverb in the surrounds. It needs to be a very specific effect, like shouting into a huge cave or something. I have heard films where there is constant dialogue reverb in the surrounds. It sounds kind of sloppy and if not done well detracts from the space and ambiance instead of adding to it.

Randall

Originally Posted by SZE

Hi

I had a discussion last week with another mixer regarding the use of reverb on dial in film mixes - the mixer concerned swears by his mantra of basically never putting dial reverb in the surrounds (unless a very specific effect is required), arguing that if you are not very careful, focus and clarity in the dial track can be affected.

He has default reverb sends for dial in a LCR configuration.

I mentioned the merit of using mono reverb on ADR to help match production acoustics, which got me thinking of how users here are mixing dial reverb.

Do you tend to use a normal stereo reverb send, and pan the aux depending on how much surround you want? Or just go straight to a 5.0 (or 5.1!) reverb, and let the reverb profile fill the space?

What other reverb tricks do you employ when mixing dial?

I am referring in general to 'normal' dial, than special effect voices / scenes, etc.

Thanks!

[andreasfromsweden]

i'm doing a stereo mix but thought i'd use this thread instead of starting a new one...

im using altiverb to create normal room reverbs for my dialogue as well as trying to take some edge of the very sharp shootgun recordings.
im a bit worried ill lose perception and do some beginners mistakes and if someone has general experience to share, things to be careful with etc, id be very grateful. how much of the dry signal do you usually end up with for normal midshots?

my dialogue track is my location track and im sending that to a stereo aux track where im adding my reverb. where am i best of trying to do some paning? in my altiverb plugin?

[Cheesehead]

I also don't normally add any reverb to production dialogue unless matching ADR with on set recordings. Then only in mono to the centre.

Like Quadraphonics says, its good in a cave or a boiler room or some large exteriors, but its a bit of a trap to start putting it on everything.
Anything that detracts from the clarity and intelligibility of Dialogue is a no no.

Remember theaters are generally echoey enough anyway without adding extra.

I have heard it done well though, listen to 'The King's Speech' DVD for instance. A lot of it is personal preference. If it sounds good, it is good.

[Henchman]

I never add reverb to production dialog, unless, as others have stated, it's for effect.
And if it's for effect, I tend to use a surround verb.
For example, speaking into a microphone on a stage.

As far as taking the the edge off if shotgun recordings. That's what EQ is for.

[andreasfromsweden]

i see, some really valuable advice, txs.
i've had some success reducing, i guess proximity is what i really mean, with convolution reverb and while i use eq for adjustments i've also though of reverb as a tool for adding distance, like for close booming in mids or wides,

is eq and dynamics all that is used even when you fix dialogue from radio mics in feature films? i had the opportunity to speak with sound people that worked on the great gatsby a while ago and when i heard it was almost all radio mics i was really surprised. does the signal processing of the dialogue tracks, besides effects, really just come down to eq and dynamics + some minor panning? harmonic filters??
edit: even if you only use radio mics? (ive only used cheap radio mics but thought they had.. 'un-cinematic characteristics' that had to be fixed in post?)

[Peter Baird]

I did post for many years on a show where all talking talent wore omni RF lavs put through a large PA system with a couple thousand in the audience in a glass building. Not surprisingly we heard a significant echo tail through the lavs.

Editorial liked to cut out sentences and words and re-order things for air, so when we got the show for post it would have lots of places where the reverb tail had to be repaired to cover the edit, even after tweaking around with crossfades and creative editing.

We treated the verb as a dialogue element, so it was always in mono and printed to the DX stem. I think building all those dumps to verb was where I first fell in love with Pro Tools automation.

Fun side note--after demoing a whole raft of exotic verbs to build that reverb tail, we ended up right back where we started with a mono Digiverb instance. Something about it sounded just like a big clumsy room returning through a lav. Go figure.

Peter

[Cheesehead]

i had the opportunity to speak with sound people that worked on the great gatsby a while ago and when i heard it was almost all radio mics i was really surprised.

I don't know about 'the great gatsby' but I would always expect a good sound recordist to give me a useable boom track unless the circumstances were very difficult.

The boom track is always the one to use, radios are a safety backup in film.

TV of course is a different story.

[tamasdragon]

Lavs can work, but generally only after lots of clean up, careful eq and reverb, or else most of the times it sounds artificial or too close. Booms has a certain natural sound which, many times, sounds much more like the real person. I always had to work harder on lavs in order to make them sound good. With all thait said, sometimes lavs can save you from many ADR.

[TVPostSound]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I never add reverb to production dialog, unless, as others have stated, it's for effect.
And if it's for effect, I tend to use a surround verb.
For example, speaking into a microphone on a stage.

As far as taking the the edge off if shotgun recordings. That's what EQ is for.

Just did a show, a recap show where the host and guests were on a super noisy stage.
All wore lavs. Sounded like lavs were placed by PAs.
After EQ, to get rid of the nasty lav recordings, editing, and noise reduction, it sounded so
dry and sterile, I had to run room tone across the show (Center Obviously), and added reverb across the 5.0 to make it sound real!!

It worked!!

Never say never!!!