First Time Pro Tools User...maybe -- Advice?

[ktrainyo]

I am a low budget filmmaker with a project in post. This is the 4th feature I have edited and this is the first of them that warrants any kind of professional mix/sound editing. I edit with Avid on a PC and the previous films I have worked on I mixed and did sound editing using various consumer level Sony software. I intend to take my project to a post house to record a little ADR and have a final pass done on the film with a 5.1 mix. I am familiar with DAWs and now that Pro Tools 9 is in an affordable range I feel that it would be decent to all the heavy lifting with and then bring in the project to a post house. However, there seems to be a big difference from Pro Tools 9 and having that along with the complete production toolkit 2.

The questions: Will I be lacking in tools by doing a mix in Pro Tools 9 and a decent pair of monitors without having the production toolkit? Should I just get everything on their own channels in preparation for the 5.1 mix(because I will be unable to monitor it with the proper equipment)?

Will me creating the audio project in a 2.1 system in Pro Tools 9 handicap the final mix?

Let me know all opinions.

[idris]

The easy answer is spend the extra money, and take years learning to do sound. (It's not the answer you're looking for so I say that with a very large smile and a very large comedy wink.)

The production tool kit offers advantages pros regard as essential (too many for me to explain quickly) so get it if you can. But in your situation I would seriously suggest getting someone else on board. (A sound editor would rarely want to edit video, so a video editor / film maker should specialise similarly.)

Not sure what the "entry level" feature scene is like in LA, but in the UK there are sites like Talent Circle, Mandy and Shooting People where you can advertised "unpaid jobs" and there will doubtless be film sound students etc who are in a position to help you. It's also a good way of networking and building up a team for your film and future projects.

Not really answering your question, but hope it helps.

[mgoorevich]

1. Don't do it. You think it's easy (don't say you don't) and the only gap to the full 5.1 mix is a Pro Tools. Please understand, even if I give you for 3 months my full blown Pro Tools HD studio with everything you need, you'll finished after a week very upset and frustrated without any results.
In a way it's much more complicated than just Avid editing or about having the right tool.
2. Now when we agreed that you think it's easy, ask yourself a question - will a professional sound designer get professional work done with some consumer tools? It maybe will take longer for him, but the answer will be YES.

So don't waste your time and the reputation (as a responsible person).
It doesn't work like "a little ADR", "some cleaning" or "a final pass done on the film with a 5.1 mix"
It's a jargon of un-experienced Avid editors and greedy stupid producers.

[Noiz2]

You got the aggressive answers above. They may not have put it in the smoothest terms but they are right.

Things you are missing.
First picture editing and sound editing are polar opposites in many ways. With picture you basically have all that material and your job is to sift through and cut away till you get a film. In sound your starting with very little. Dialog is all you should be trying to salvage from production tracks. Your job is to create the world that the film is set in, which with the exception of docs, is not where the film was actually shot. So you are doing a lot of creating from scratch. ProTools et al are tools that help you with the mechanics but don't do anything to help the "create a world" part of the job. That takes experience and recordings and experience and more recordings. Then it goes to a mixer.

So the answer is that it's not the ProTools version that is going to be your big problem it's your inexperience.

Personally I don't recommend 5.1 for any low budget film. You don't have the money to do it right. Spend the money on a good stereo mix and if you get some interest in the film then think about doing a 5.1 edit.

Or if 5.1 is some delivery requirement then mix LCR and spill a bit into the surrounds. The big reason is that even films with some decent distribution get shown in theatres where the surrounds are either broken, off or out of whack. It's one more thing to go wrong and make you look bad. And how are you going to get that surround mix to a theatre? You can go to DVD with it, but festivals?

There are some scenarios that make sense so maybe you do have a good reason to 5.1, but really think it through because the odds are you don't.

[idris]

Originally Posted by Noiz2

You got the aggressive answers above.

For the record, I wasn't trying to be aggressive, quite the opposite. So grovelling apologies if it read that way.

[EarHole]

I don't even know if an LE rig could handle a 5.1 feature. I have an HD2 rig and max out super fast by the time all the bussing is achieved.

[tom_lowe]

Originally Posted by EarHole

I don't even know if an LE rig could handle a 5.1 feature. I have an HD2 rig and max out super fast by the time all the bussing is achieved.

Firstly, there is no LE anymore, I'm guessing you mean a native, non-HD system when you say LE. Secondly, it would depend on his CPU. If he is using a Mac Pro or an i7 based iMac or PC, it has the potential to be far more powerful than an HD2....... but I am not looking to start another lively debate about TDM vs native *YAWN*

[BobbyDazzler]

Dialog fills a lot of space in a stereo mix, but not a lot in a 5.1 mix. My first experience with 5.1 was trying to do exactly what you are trying to do (but I am audio only).
Long story short: Monitoring in stereo, and working on a 32 inch monitor gave me no scope of what was needed for a proper 5.1 big screen mix. It was a disaster and needed an extra 2 days of SFX and Foley work before it could justify a mix.

[ktrainyo]

Thanks for all the help everyone. I think I am leaning towards a good dialogue mix using the audio recorded during shooting and putting my money towards a good pair of monitors and then handing it over to an experienced mixer for the nuances. I'll let you all know how it turns out and what path we took.

[Charles D. Ballard]

I agree with many of the comments here, but I would remind us that there are some great editors that are great with sound, too. If you're shooting to become another Walter Murch, I wish you all the luck... just don't expect to get there too quickly.