The best thing about the ICON!

[grivel]

LOOK WHAT YOU STARTED RT60

>You could put together one (or two, or three?) massive ICON systems for the kind of money it takes to >configure a typical large-format console.

While yes you could, but do you really think the massive comanies that can afford MPC's, will really trust the reliability of the ICON to run ALL DAY LONG? Not in this lifetime.

>My bold prediction is that in a few years, everyone will be mixing "in the box", of whatever brand is >in favor at the time

Disagree, if that would happen, there would be no audio industry today. It would just be obsolete garbage computer products that could or may work sometimes.

AND HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE OF THIS PREDICTION:

Post is of the Entertainment Industry. More lights per dollar the better. High barriers to entry permit a sector of the market that specializes in a specific clientelle. If the new backbone of this industry relied ONLY on cheap mix-in-the-box solutions, there would be NOTHING gear wise that separates these guys from the MID guys.

It will never happen. Plus these large corporations are part of a key driving factor, that supports the audio industry by large, as they have been for many years.

Digidesign gear DOES NOT support the industry by large. It is a closed shop, and that is the reputation, and that is how it will be because theyve made themselves out to be that way.

Will they continue to grow? YES - And massively. I have nothing against Pro Tools, I don't even have anything against the company or employees, I just have opinions, just as everything I say or anyone says is an opinion..including Dr Sound.

I think we are going to see alot of this computer host stuff working in conjunction with existing hardware systems. I think Pro Tools is going to go more Host Based which is cool. Pro Tools TDM will be fading eventually, no more money to be maid. That's how they will make their money (Host). PC is definately the future for Digidesign. MACs will just be dying more and more by the day....and many of the young people coming through are Windows kids. The MAC die hards are on their way out anyway.

[Hostage]

OK Boys cool off. First I have worked with Marti many time he is a great mixer but he could be a hard ass on his recodist LOL marti just had to put that out there.

If any of you have half a brain there is a lot marti could teach you.

Second once you all calm down do you think Digi is only going to have the ICON and Controll 24 only , no way The Controll 24 is 6 to 8 months away from being put to rest and I guarantee there will be a second Icon made Just for music industrie Maybe an Icon With out all the nobs and half the price But as Marti would say you get what you pay for.

Oh and one last Surpise when the Music version of ICON comes out expect a new I/O box to replace the 192s Can everyone Say Super Audio CD . And if you want that new cheeper console you will have to upgade your I/Os.

Now everyone have a nice day and put it to rest.

[fantasongsmusic]

" MACs will just be dying more and more by the day....and many of the young people coming through are Windows kids. The MAC die hards are on their way out anyway."



What crystal ball are you looking through? By the time MAC folk filter out of the DIGI scene there will be bigger and better tech from so many other companies. Digi is not the last word in audio and MAC is still the preferred choice not to mention most of the Digi schools are Mac based.

My 2 cents

[RT60]

"do you think Digi is only going to have the ICON and Controll 24 only , no way The Controll 24 is 6 to 8 months away from being put to rest and I guarantee there will be a second Icon made Just for music industrie Maybe an Icon With out all the nobs and half the price But as Marti would say you get what you pay for.
Oh and one last Surpise when the Music version of ICON comes out expect a new I/O box to replace the 192s Can everyone Say Super Audio CD . And if you want that new cheeper console you will have to upgade your I/Os."

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Hostage, you are the model consumer.

When HD came out, we (the owners and employees of our studio) thought, "we're not going to jump on this right away. Let's wait and see what the demand is from our clientele". After a few months passed, we decided that we'd be best off trading in our Mix++ system for HD, before it's not worth much anymore. We like the HD, sounds better, pretty much rock solid aside from a few quirky bits. A few months after we bought the HD and a stack of 192's... SURPRISE.. Out came the Accel. So you buy an ICON and surprise, Digi has a nice "gotcha" for you.

I have a feeling that the above statement is supposed to be reassuring. Don't worry everyone, your Control24 is a paperweight now, (I mean, a paperweight with a notoriously faulty power supply) there's something new coming out! Hurrah! But wait, you're going to need all new interfaces now if you want to use that "music" ICON. Ooooeee, isn't it great? I don't think it is - I think Digi wants us all to have a "standing order" with them, that we feel the need to keep up with every new product they put out.

Also, I don't think too many people *are* saying "Super Audio CD". Most people I know are saying "iPod". But that's a digression, though it seems that the only high-res format really clicking right now is DVD, and that's the video format, not audio. And that's still PCM, not DSD. (I'd love for this to not be so, believe me.) Oh dang, I'm gonna need to buy DSD plug-ins now too?

Of course, I realize that we work in a technological industry, and keeping up is expensive - has always been. When people had two tracks, they wanted three. The other studio had four, eight, 16... VCA's, moving faders, "total recall", digital reverbs... Russian Dragons and Linn Drums, DAT and Masterlink. It's difficult to decide what is a worthwhile investment. To me, it is that the equipment will enable the engineer to work efficiently, do high quality work with high quality results and that this gear will maintain its functionality for several years. I just have serious doubts that the ICON will be supported longer than, say, a Control 24.

When was the Control24 introduced? Why, it was at NAMM, the year was 2001. Three years ago. So enjoy using your ICON for three years before Digi drops support for it. Hostage asked us to put it to rest, but only fueled the fire.

Jason

[trakbytes]

grivel quotes:

>You could put together one (or two, or three?) massive ICON systems for the kind of money it takes to >configure a typical large-format console.
While yes you could, but do you really think the massive comanies that can afford MPC's, will really trust the reliability of the ICON to run ALL DAY LONG? Not in this lifetime.

Well, I happen to work for one of the massive companies that has 2 MPC's ( plus many other large Harrison's) and also trusts four ProControl rooms and 3 Control 24 rooms to run two shifts, seven days a week. One of the MPC rooms has a Control 24 in it as well, and the mixer in that room usually mixes on the Control 24.

Not saying the big consoles are dead; far from it, and big bucks are going into upgrading the Harrison's to all digital I/O this year.

grivel says:

Post is of the Entertainment Industry. More lights per dollar the better. High barriers to entry permit a sector of the market that specializes in a specific clientelle. If the new backbone of this industry relied ONLY on cheap mix-in-the-box solutions, there would be NOTHING gear wise that separates these guys from the MID guys.
It will never happen. Plus these large corporations are part of a key driving factor, that supports the audio industry by large, as they have been for many years.

It's not all about the Gee Whiz factor for seasoned clients. All they really care about is how quickly they can get the job done with demanding quality requirements. They do want to be catered to and have a nice room to work in. But really, audio post is just a step on the road to getting a finished product either in the theaters on time or meeting the air date. The client doesn't really care what gear is used to get it done.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not some glazed-eyed Pro Tools supporter who thinks it's the Holy Grail. I've been using Digidesign products for too long to think that way. But I do make my living daily using ProTools, and it is the best product for my tasks at the present time. And I do like my Mac's a lot better than any PC I've ever had the displeasure of working with. But if Nuendo or some other up and comer makes a big stand, I'll take a look. I don't like paying the high cost of seasonal upgrades any more than the next guy. But I think that anyone who says things like "it will never happen" will be dining on crow sooner or later. Probably sooner.

rcm

[Hostage]

WOW I love the passion you all have. But Jason I can tell you that I enjoyd reading your reply but bottom line Is you have to take a leap of faith and use the best tools availible. As far as I can see if your a good bussines man you can pay off ICON console in a very short time unlike the a Harison. Look digi is not the only game in town but so far the best. But dont you think that all the major consoles saw this coming why did they not creat a editing interface or buy one out . When Procontrol came out it was like throwing a gavel down. Best of luck an good luck to all of you. Now if I can oly get this kind of reaction from my wife.

[dr sound]

Jason,
I knew I'd see you here . Yes the Control 24 is only 3 years old. Let's see, total investment let's say $6750.00 Take that and divide by 3 years that’s $2250.00 a year. Divide that by 52 weeks that's $43.26 a week. Divide that by 40 hours (typical workweek) that's $1.08 an hour.
So now that a new console comes along and you decide to sell your Control 24 for let's say $3000.
It cost you a total of 76 cents per hour for a console during the three years. Hell a can of Coke cost more than that! Not a bad investment.

[dr sound]

Poster: Hostage
Subject: Re: For Grivel

OK Boys cool off. First I have worked with Marti many time he is a great mixer but he could be a hard ass on his recodist LOL marti just had to put that out there.

If any of you have half a brain there is a lot marti could teach you.

Hostage,
Thanks for the kind words. Hey e-mail me, I need to talk to you.
Take Care,

[Henchman]

Look digi is not the only game in town but so far the best.

having read the posts here for the last few days I can't help but chime in.
No, Pt's is not the best.

Furthermore a friend of mine just came back from LA where he attented a meeting with a whole bunch of people in the post-industry who work mainly on big films and big budget stuff.

And they all expressed their dislike for Pt's and the way it works in the mix envireonment.

But you don't have to believe me.

[trakbytes]

Would be curious as to what they thought was better. I know Pyramix is making some inroads as a recorder, mainly because it allows destructive record in a punch-in environment with Pec/Direct switching control from the console. Don't know about it as an editor, though. What was the general consensus? And what was the dislike in the mix environment to ProTools?

rcm