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  #21  
Old 12-10-2002, 05:48 PM
planet X planet X is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Where is this myth that nearly all pop music is recorded and mixed in Pro Tools coming from??.

The fact is Brittney, Nosync, and all the rest are actually mixed through obscenely expensive boards. yeh, they may track to Pro Tools. There is a huge difference with tracking and mixing, not that 'Still No SSL' would realse that.

Lets face it. Ricky martins WAS mixed in the box. I have yet to hear a single producer, or engineer that has listened to that awful crap and say its a worthy effort. In fact I bet it would be voted as one of the worst prodcued albums over the past decade. Except by 'Still No SSl' becasue of all the layering that went on in a vain attempt to beef up the tinny sound.

Yet digi had the producer of Ricky all over the promo DVD for HD lauding, and praising the hell out of the system.

I couldnt stop laughing ....
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2002, 07:21 PM
bjorn for a reason bjorn for a reason is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

One of my engineers just finished a mix for a client (a shawn colvin type of tune) and the client asked if i could give it a listen for her.
Our B rig (mix with 6 mix farms) was completely maxed out with over 50 plugs used, crazy fx and buzy automation everywhere.......
And it sounded like **** ! I quickly called her and said i'd remix it for her.
I stripped all automation removed all plugs and started over. within 2 hours with less than 5 eqs and one altiverb the mix was much improved. Bottom line is I couldn't agree more.. Put those plugs away and PT starts to sound pretty good. track stuff properly and use your ears not your ego!
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2002, 02:33 AM
DrTone DrTone is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

scuse me to chime in, but I have to respectfully disagree. Listen to almost any Beatles track and you'll hear a LOT of eq'ing on vitually everything. These are not awfully natural sounding recordings but they rock.

Ofcourse you can worsen a mix by overusing plugs etc., but that does not imply a minimalism in using EQ's or any plug, but rather an "optimalism". Some tracks simply need it, mostly for creative sound-shaping, and some others blend naturally very well. So I would only agree to the advice: Think a moment before you instantiate a plug-in, but if you are confident that you want to cut the bottom (or anything else for that matter), go for it!

Dan
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2002, 03:13 AM
threesixty threesixty is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by DrTone:
scuse me to chime in, but I have to respectfully disagree. Listen to almost any Beatles track and you'll hear a LOT of eq'ing on vitually everything. These are not awfully natural sounding recordings but they rock.

Ofcourse you can worsen a mix by overusing plugs etc., but that does not imply a minimalism in using EQ's or any plug, but rather an "optimalism". Some tracks simply need it, mostly for creative sound-shaping, and some others blend naturally very well. So I would only agree to the advice: Think a moment before you instantiate a plug-in, but if you are confident that you want to cut the bottom (or anything else for that matter), go for it!

Dan
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EQ's cool and very neccessary. I think we're all talking about all these pseudo analog plugins that give you "warmth" etc.. I think there all bollocks nowadays. If the eq is clean (i.e. mcdsp, even digi's ones!) then it cool. However I still think its better to get it right before u track because there more chance to mess it up with radical eq in tools.

And to the guy who dissed Ricky Martins CD. As I said before, a hit "song" dictates how the sound (production) of a records is recieved. If there are 5 cd's with hit songs that sound like rickys then all the record companies will want mixes that sound like that. Hip hop sound isnt technically correct but the records are hot so everyones got to sound like that to get paid. Its the way of the world, you've got deal with it. More and more mixes are being done in the box, just as more and more videos are edited in final cut pro. its cheaper and more cost effective ..

Either get on the train or get left at the station .......
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:35 AM
planet X planet X is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Quote:
scuse me to chime in, but I have to respectfully disagree. Listen to almost any Beatles track and you'll hear a LOT of eq'ing on vitually everything. These are not awfully natural sounding recordings but they rock
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree only one thing you have forgotten. They wrent using pro tools [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . But seriously a lot of The Beatles sound was due to the rooms the mic's and George Martin. Much of the equipment used for many of the Beatles sessions is still highly sought after and are extremely expensive.
last I have to point out the consoles of that Era did not have anywhere near the range of EQ our plugs have today. It was pretty much a bass and terble scenario.

Like I said before you start recording into PT's.

PS
Its not a natural sounding album? I dont get that. What is natural? If you mean Sgt Peppers, it was a groundbreaking production that stands up very well today. It put one of those Beach Boys out of action for a year because he couldnt compete with it. he was blown away!
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  #26  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:41 AM
planet X planet X is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Quote:
And to the guy who dissed Ricky Martins CD. As I said before, a hit "song" dictates how the sound (production) of a records is recieved.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, plain and simple that was a badly mixed album. Your average joe doesnt care and thats cool. I dont even blame the producer he was using a tool that is very difficult to work with and 'Tinnyness' is part of the PT sound. There is no way in hell the sound of that production has become fashionable. Give me Brittney's mix anyday over Ricky. At least it has a defined and cohesive bottom end, and dosnt have screaming top end that grates on your ears [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

There isnt a single decent sounding album that has been mixed entirely WITHIN Pro Tools. This is becoming rapidly apparent through out the industry. I admit it now and I have the system. Its no big deal, I just mix out of the box.

Anyone who disagrees prove me wrong
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2002, 08:20 PM
planet X planet X is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Did I not say this was the best track (1) I have heard on this forum from anyone in here another thread?

Its a an extremely worthy effort, and certainly beats 'Vicky Smartmans' by about 1,000,000,0000 times.

Now be 100% truthfull. Was the songs tracked and mixed entirely within Pro Tools.... You mentioned ADAT. Was the tracks originally recorded through a console? Perhaps some outboard compression? Hmmmmm Give some more details please.

Quote:
It was recorded on adat somewhere's else and i transfered it into PT
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still not proved wrong. YET

Great Track anyway. and thanks for putting your ass on the line [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2002, 08:25 PM
planet X planet X is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Missed This.

Quote:
Put those plugs away and PT starts to sound pretty good. track stuff properly and use your ears not your ego
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2002, 09:18 PM
Still No SSL Yet Still No SSL Yet is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Well first of all to this planet x clown I talked about layering because the guy is trying to make better HIP HOP. I have sat in on Dave Pensado mixing and he layers things pretty well. I learned the technique from him. Now maybe you don't like his mixes. It so happens that I do. If you disagree fine. I haven't ragged on anybody's posts but yours. And I think we all agree It is easier to get better sounds from Outboard gear and a board. My point was to tell the guy if protools is all he has, he can add a few quality pieces of outboard and get results in ptools. If you have a problem with that so be it. All I was saying it that I hate people like you who use ptools and constantly complain. If you don't like it, don't use it. Results can be had in the box. Especially when complemented with some good outboard. But I'd tell the guy to layer his shyt if He had a vintage Neve and the Hit Factory's racks. You say you know me. Ok fine then you know my work. If you like it fine. If you don't It costs you nothin, so pay me no mind.

I just get tired of people talking about what can and cant be done in protools. My method was actually to give the cat a way to mix a psuedo in the box mix. That is to run each channel through a high quality stereo channel on the way in. If he is doing hip hop with a low budget and has ptools, then he probably has the time to cut his shyt 2 tracks at a time. and since it's all midied If you don't like a track re cut. Now for vocals and others that you cant re sync, Simply track without processing and process on another track and use a different playlist incase you have to come back to the original.

I don't think this is bad advice. I simply recommended layering because if you think your snares and kicks are gonna compare to Dre's mixes with one lonely old sound then it speaks volumes of your material without me hearing it. Furthermore I'm willing to bet that both my music and my mixes are better than the ones you get. Now put your money up. If you really know me as you say
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2002, 09:35 PM
Still No SSL Yet Still No SSL Yet is offline
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Default Re: I see the light!!!!

Man I just read all of the posts here, I never once said that anybody here didn't have talent. What is really this cat's problem?? Why does he seem to be the only one to have a problem with my posts?

Well anyway from now on why won't this cat not read my posts and vice versa.

The main point of what I'm saying is

GET IT RIGHT BEFORE YOU GET IT IN THE BOX

The suggestion to layer is more a production technique than a mixing one. But hopefully it helps someone.
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