*sigh* PT9, FTP and MBP13'' - too weak?

[nickbunyun]

Hi guys..
I'd like to know if this is too weak... or am i missing something?

I've had Protools 7 M-Powered on a HP Laptop and I had many problems.. DAE erros and i would have audio blips all over the recorded tracks.

I switched to a 13'' Mac Book Pro - I have seen many reviews that ProTools seems to love Apple more..

Its a 2010 13'' Mac Book Pro 2.4ghz, 4gb ram, 250hdd 5400rpm.
and I'm using USB Interface - Fast Track Pro

Test 1
Track 1 - Audio - Acoustic DI
Track 2 - Audio - Acoustic Mic
Track 3 - Audio - Bass
Track 4 - Instrument Track - Mini Grand - Played through MIDI

I did not have any errors while recording those.
However I played the tracks and added a Compressor Plugin and it gave me a CPU Overload. However once plugins are added no error.
I do have audio blips throughout playback, not as much as while recording.


Test 2
Track 1 - Instrument Track - Mini Grand - Played through MIDI

Record enabled, just to hear what I was playing.
I was not recording, I was just messing around to get the melody.. and just messing around it gave me audio blips every 5-20 seconds..

It is not as bad as it used to be on my HP (it became unbearable, really)
However.. I was hoping to not run into these issues .
Budget does not allow me to up it to a i5 or i7 mbp..

Am I missing something.. or did I upgrade just to get "fewer" blips?

I am not planning on having 50 tracks full of plugins, aux, instruments etc...
But I was hoping that up to 15 tracks that it would take it..

[daeron80]

Plenty powerful computer. The problem is two-fold:

1. Recording to the system drive - must be a separate one used only for audio
2. Recording to a 5400 RPM drive - must be 7200+

Either of those alone would be enough to cause problems. I'm surprised it worked at all with both issues together.

[nst7]

You are missing something. You need a separate firewire hard drive to record audio onto. Protools, and most other audio programs, do not support recording to the system drive. This problem is made even worse when your system drive is 5400 rpm. But even if it was 7200 rpm, you still should not be recording to it.

My 2007 Imac has the same processor as your macbook pro. I just did a test the other day, where I was running 96 tracks with lots of plugins successfully. CPU was at 70%, so it's kind of maxing out, but it shows that you should be able to get a lot more from your macbook pro.

Get one of these drives and you'll be good to go:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../MEAQ7S1TB32M/

[nickbunyun]

So an external firewire should be my next try ?

also.. what if i get a 7200rpm and partition it.. recording on a partition (it would technically still be the same drive, and issues persist ?)

[Dism]

Originally Posted by nickbunyun

So an external firewire should be my next try ?

also.. what if i get a 7200rpm and partition it.. recording on a partition (it would technically still be the same drive, and issues persist ?)

It must be a separate physical drive.

[nst7]

Recording to a separate hard drive has been a requirement for Protools since practically day one, and will not change anytime soon.

[quoid]

Originally Posted by nickbunyun

However I played the tracks and added a Compressor Plugin and it gave me a CPU Overload. However once plugins are added no error.
I do have audio blips throughout playback, not as much as while recording.

What does that mean? Are you getting the error while adding the plugin durning playback? Or getting the error, clearing it and then never getting it again?

Also, raise your latency during playback to reduce blips and such.

I have the MBP 13 as well, performs well enough, but only use to edit on the road. But also be honest with yourself, you are using a laptop.

[half drag]

Originally Posted by nst7

You are missing something. You need a separate firewire hard drive to record audio onto. Protools, and most other audio programs, do not support recording to the system drive. This problem is made even worse when your system drive is 5400 rpm. But even if it was 7200 rpm, you still should not be recording to it.

My 2007 Imac has the same processor as your macbook pro. I just did a test the other day, where I was running 96 tracks with lots of plugins successfully. CPU was at 70%, so it's kind of maxing out, but it shows that you should be able to get a lot more from your macbook pro.

Get one of these drives and you'll be good to go:

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../MEAQ7S1TB32M/

Guys - I really appreciate this thread and would like to piggyback onto it for some more detailed info. I'm looking at going the Mac Book Pro route and am just having trouble getting past the recording drive set-up planning.


1 - Easy one -- 5400 RPM for the *system* drive is OK, correct? No need to customize Mac Book Pro for that it seems, based on what I read here. Yes?


2 - The Mac Book Pro internal drive is a Serial ATA - that's SATA, right? So, if *not* using this internal drive for recording to at all, then is the following warning/recommendation from Avid a non-issue, and can I go with any qualified external drive type?

"For best performance, we suggest that you do not mix record/playback drives of different types. For example, you should not record to an internal SATA drive and an external FireWire drive at the same time."


3 - And therefore can I use either a FireWire *or* USB 2.0 external drive for recording? I am going to use a ProFire 2626. This will take up the one and only FireWire port on the Mac Book Pro. In light of this, is a USB 2.0 external recording drive my best bet? Another option here could possibly be to go though the ProFire's second FireWire port. See the Profire 2626's notes on this:

"Connect the ProFire 2626 interface to your computer using one of the supplied FireWire cables (I realize I will actually use a non-supplied FW 800 9-pin to FW 400 6-pin). Note that the ProFire 2626 has two FireWire ports. Connect either one of these ports to your computer only; the second port can be used to connect another FireWire device (such as a hard disk, etc.) to your computer.**

"**If your computer has a second FireWire port, M-Audio recommends connecting any additional FireWire devices to that port instead of daisy-chaining them to ProFire 2626. Alternatively, if your computer includes an additional PCI or PCMCIA FireWire expansion card, we recommend connecting additional FireWire devices to the ports on that card while ProFire 2626 should remain connected to the computer's built-in FireWire port. Operating ProFire 2626 and other FireWire peripherals on separate FireWire busses should help to prevent potential bandwidth overload and other possible FireWire bus related conflicts between devices."

[EDIT: not even to mention Avid's warning: "Mixing FireWire 800 and 400 drives on the same bus may cause performance issues." Now, routing a drive through the ProFire 2626 might not qualify as this, but it will mean connecting a 400 device (the Profire 2626) and presumably an 800 device (the external drive) through the Profire 2626 (400 device) into the Mac (800 FireWire port). It just all makes me think connecting the external drive to the the USB 2.0 port on the Mac would be better.]


Now, in light of *that*, again, is using the USB 2.0 connection from the Mac Book Pro to the external drive the best bet (with the ProFire 2626 connected to the computer via the FireWire)? Note, this would leave zero available USB ports as my iLok will be in one and the external recording drive in the other. In fact, there would be no further peripheral connectivity available (save going through the ProFire's second FireWire port which is actually not recommended if can be avoided). Is this cool?


Comments, advice, guidance, or agreeance?

I'm hoping there's an existing generally accepted set-up for ProFire 2626 + standard outfitted Mac Book Pro that you guys can confirm for me.


[EDIT: YIKES - I also just noticed this again which I forgot about, on the Avid PT 9 Hard Drive Requirements page: "External Drives - USB 2.0 (*Windows Only*)". *SIGH* is right! So what, can I actually *NOT* even use a USB external drive on Mac w/ PT 9? Is ProFire 2626 even a good option to use with MBP? SIGH! Please help! ]


THANKS!!!!

half drag

[SixChurchStreet]

I use a base model 13" for Pro Tools, and for the most part its ok, but it's a little underpowered. It's a little underpowered when I start using any amp sims and too many virtual instruments. I know both of those are notorious for draining cpu resources, especially amp sims, but I hate having to spend half my time managing resources rather than being creative and keeping the flow going. I miss the power of my quad core PC, but I don't miss Windows, and I don't miss being tied to my desk.

Because of the 13's shortcomings, I'm considering stepping up to the 15" i5 or i7 to get some more horsepower. Wish I could get a Quad iMac or a Mac Pro, but I need the mobility.

[nst7]

To HalfDrag,

The warning about mixing drive types would not apply in your situation. It was specifically talking about situations where you had a session with a high track count and wanted to split the tracks up to 2 drives. For example, you have a 120 track session. Using disc allocation in Protools, you put tracks 1-60 on drive 1, and tracks 61-120 on drive 2. They're saying in that situation to have both drives be firewire, or both drives esata, etc. Splitting up sessions on drives is much less of an issue than it used to be, and I don't think you'd encounter a need to do that. My example of 96 tracks was all from one drive over firewire.

As for the usb vs. firewire, firewire has always been, and still is the recommended type for your audio drive, unless you have a Mac Pro and can do internal drives or have esata ports (this is possible with the 17" Macbook Pro, because of the express card slot, you could use an esata adapter).

The recommendation for windows using usb is because of compatibility problems with Windows and firewire cards, but it is not the optimal situation.

It is easy to daisy-chain firewire drives with a firewire interface, and that should work fine with the 2626. I have successfully run 3 drives in a row, with a 003Rack at the end, all from one fw800 port on my 3 year old Imac, with many tracks and plugins, while streaming BFD2 samples from the 3rd drive. The 2626 should work fine that way as well.

Using the hard drive I linked to, you can go fw800 from the computer, to the drive, then fw 400 from the drive to the 2626.

And it's not a problem to have the system drive be 5400 rpm. But then with that speed of drive, you want to avoid putting sample libraries on that. Ideally they should be on a separate drive also (not the system drive and not the audio drive), and that's even more important if the system drive is 5400 rpm.

The same place that sells the hard drive I linked to, also sells internal replacement drives for the Macbook Pro, at much more reasonable prices than Apple. You still may want to look into that and put a 7200 rpm drive, or solid state drive in your Macbook Pro, for better overall performance, regardless of what you're doing.