Recording Toms - help!

[little_bloke]

Hi,

I have been doing some recording sessions with a fairly large kit, everything is sounding good except for the toms... which stink. the toms sound like cardboard, they all have new heads, top and bottom.

I despirately need some good advice on getting a better sound from the toms, specifically Mic Placement and EQ. I have the option of eq during recording using a soundcraft K1 desk, though i'm not sure thats the best idea.

I expect much of it is down to the cheap 'yoga' mics we are using on the toms, I would love to utilise some better mics but i just dont have the cash available, that said i'm using a cheap ass mic on the snare and it sounds pretty good!

The mic's are positioned fairly close to the heads, facing directly at the head.

The kit is a pearl masters (with 5 toms).

the mic's I have available are.

1 x Rode K2
2 x Rode NT5 (overheads)
12 x yoga D-606 (clip mics on all toms and snare top)
2 x Shure SM58
1 x Shure PG52
1 x mic used for High Hat (cant remember what it is right now... its late)
Misc. generic cheap mics.

Advice an comments welcome.

Regards,

LB

[madcow]

This may be a silly question but are they tuned properly?

A good majority of drummers (with high end kits) simply dont know how to tune the kit.
That kit is a great kit and SHOULD sound good. Oh ya, if you've applied any duck tape to take away overtones, remove. That would make them sound like cardboard boxes for sure.
The room will make a huge difference also.

If the kit sounds decent, it's all about eq. I wouldnt EQ on the way in.
You'll get it with some experimentation.

I just noticed you are using a mic for the hi hats. Not necessary really.
Get 2 half way decent condensors for overheads (Studio projects are decent for the price). That will definatly help with the toms and cymbals.

[nightshadecrisis]

do the toms themselves(unmiced in the room) sound good?
yes, part of the problem is the mics most likely, but i would go get those toms tuned by a professional. after that...its your gear that you'll need to switch around.

[little_bloke]

Humm... good points..

as for the toms tuned well... this is down to the drummer, he is an excellent drummer but as to his knowledge of drum tuning, i'm unsure... I will broach that question with him, although its unlikey that he doesn't know how to tune them, as he lives, breathes and eats drums.

Also the kit does sound good, I think its more likely that i'm having difficulty getting the sound i'm hearing in the studio transferred to the control room.

The room is crap, this i have tried to resolve by various means, but i will consider that further...

any thoughts on mic placement?

[madcow]

try these..

http://www.prosoundweb.com/recording/botr/micing.php

http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/drumsrec.php

http://www.epinions.com/inst-review-...398AE322-prod1

http://www.recordingproject.com/arti....php?article=5

[Third Eye Studios]

Hey There,

I have been doing some recording sessions with a fairly large kit, everything is sounding good except for the toms... which stink. the toms sound like cardboard, they all have new heads, top and bottom.

How do your toms sound in the overheads? Are you using a room mic (or mics)? If the toms don't good in the OH's and room, it will be hard to make the individual tracks sound good. You might want to really focus on getting a good tom sound with the stereo pair and room mic. Then just add in the individual tom tracks for a little push. With five toms, the combined leakage and overtones may be causing some phasing problems leading to masking and all king of other great goodies.

Maybe back off a little on the mics (maybe 2 1/2" from the tom) and point them towards where the stick makes contact with the head. If they toms are too dead, then take off any tape or "moon gel". For the future, the Sennheiser 609 makes a good buget tom mic (great on guitar cabs too).

You can set also set up all your drums to input in PT on aux inputs instead of directly into audio tracks. Just bus the output of the aux input to a new audio track and you can record using plug-ins on the drums. This is similar to using your mixer for eq, but could be better (if you have good eq and possibly compression plug-ins).

Also, check out getting a Drum Dial for the studio. It can be a good reference for getting toms in tune. Take care.

[little_bloke]

Thank you for all your comments, this weekend I should be having a good session in the studio, I will endevor to take on board everything you have suggested and see what works!

The drums origionaly had no moon-gel or gaffa attached, but the ammount of overtones was considerable, essecally on the low and floor tom which resonates for a good few seconds, creating a muddy overall mix.

I appreciate what you say about the gaffa, removing lots of the overtones, I think the drums should sound as they sound! but recording them along with the rest of the kit ... well it's certanly a challenge!

I have not yet considered using the overheads to pick up the toms as well, I currently slightly compress them and roll of everything below 3.5K (in the mix) to capture a real crispness and sparkle. I will look at how the toms sound in these mics.

As for a room mic, well I have been using the Rode K2, but the room is a low celinged oblong box, with no personality at all... lol, I'd love to record in a wonderfully acoustic room, but this ain't it! Never-the-less, i have tried placing the K2 in vairous positions in the room with various polar pattens.. but the results were generally Pants.

I'm hoping that the angle of the mic's will make a big diffrence, putting them at a 40 Deg angle may improve things!!! we shall see.

thanks again people for your thoughts.

LB

P.S. I'm gonna look into getting a DrumDial also...

[madcow]

If you dont have a couple of overheads, even 2 sm57's are probably better then nothing at all ($200).

[mrufino1]

Definitely make sure the drums sound good in the first place. Also, use your overheads for more than just the cymbals. Check your overhead placement as well. We used a stereo bar last week to du an ORTF micing of the overheads and it worked really well, the cymbals sound smooth and the stereo placement is the best I'v egotten yet. We have pretty inexpensive stuff too, the OH's are superlux sdc's (they are great for the price, pretty well kept secret) into a digimax into the 002, so nothing fancy, but we are trying hard to maximize what we've got. Our studio is pretty dead sounding and is a small room, but the toms always seem to sound great. If I could get the snare going.... Check phasing, that is certainly an issue. Also, I have played with a LOT of drummers, and tunign for the studio is not the same as tuning for live, so certainly if you have th etime you should experiment. Tongiht I am taking that advice myself, we are going be tryign out different combinations of mics and micing techniques, I'm tired of always rushing (not my choice, believe me!!) during the sessions then being unhappy when I try to mix. Good luck.

[doylemusic]

Tongiht I am taking that advice myself, we are going be tryign out different combinations of mics and micing techniques, I'm tired of always rushing (not my choice, believe me!!) during the sessions then being unhappy when I try to mix. Good luck.

That's really the key right there. I too fell into the rush, rush, rush method of drum micing only to produce less than desireable drum tracks. I started recording a band two weeks ago. On Friday night we did nothing but drum setup/tuning/micing for three hours, then we setup the guitars and keyboards. On Saturday we did bass and then spent 6 hours tracking the group. It really worked out well and the drums sounds are my best yet. IT was really worth it to be able to take the time on the drums, making sure everything had a nice sound. The snare took a while as he was not very skilled at tuning it. I wanted to just grab it and do it myself, but I had to restrain. Odly enough, with a little EQ to bring out the crispness and a little Antares tube to fatten it up, it doesn't sound too bad. He only had two toms, so I used an SM57 on the hi tom and a LDC on the floor tom. You might expirement with the SM58's with a litle bit of distance on the lower toms. Also, using the overheads to pick up more of the kit (as opposed to just cymbals) will yield a bigger sound all around. I try not to do low freq cuts on the OH's unless there is an issue. Good luck.