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  #901  
Old 10-26-2014, 08:39 PM
Carl Kolchak Carl Kolchak is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by propower View Post
Too funny -
5 stages of grief
- Denial (been there)
- Anger - (been there)
- Bargaining (above poster)
- Depression (been there)
- Acceptance (what else can we do

In all seriousness - All the valid points have been raised over and over about the new licensing rollout. All the other stuff about what could be different is certainly a fascinating read - and is (IMO) complete fantasy (if any are thinking it may change the course of things). What I believe is that just like every other time - the path is set and all that may change is the temporary spin of how it may be handed back to us pretty much unchanged from what it was. As far as corporate direction - way beyond already in place... though it was fun writing (and reading) all the ideas... There is clearly a pent up demand for an "If I Ran AVID I would...." thread!

AVID will do what it will do - whenever it gets around to doing it. All claims of them "listening" whilst somewhat comforting seem completely dismissible at this time. I promise to bow out now until there is something concrete to react to... best to all!


I was going to refrain from further posts on this thread (at least until we get all the details from Avid), but you just reminded me of something...


I remember the actor Ricardo Montalban discussing the 5 stages of an actors career :

- Who is Ricardo Montalban?

- Get me Ricardo Montalban!

- Get me a Ricardo Montalban type.

- Get me a young Ricardo Montalban.

- Who is Ricardo Montalban?




I can't help but wonder if that may become somewhat analogous for Pro Tools, over time.


AVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID!
  #902  
Old 10-26-2014, 09:22 PM
21 Junipers 21 Junipers is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
Perhaps in going into the PACE discussion I've taken this in a bad direction, like picking at a scab, but you missed my point.

The only reason those licences got yanked was at the request of the developer.

The pros and cons of PACE licensing are a different discussion, but right now that's where your Pro Tools assets live, put their by Avid NOT PACE. I work with developers all day using PACE so I know exactly how licences get to the end user. In fact I just called one of them to check and they confirmed they can deposit and revoke you licence in your account.

Is it likely Avid would do this? No, but I was answering the theoretical question.
This is the kind of useful help by the principal at "Pro Tools Expert"? Is this kind of 'implied speculation' helpful to anyone? The conspiracy theorists don't really need help imagining what COULD happen in some alternate universe.

When does GobblerExpert.com hit the net?
  #903  
Old 10-26-2014, 11:36 PM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

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Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
Of course there's also another group, whose income is not dependent on PT, or who do not use the product commercially, for whom the increased cost into the future may well, in itself, regardless of any other factors, be the tipping point that prevents sign up.
Avid may also have underestimated an intangible aspect of subscriptions which I suspect also extends to this type of continuous payment support plan. 'Support' may cost less for perpetual licence holders but the feeling that you'll lose value if you stop paying is the same.

I see this as similar to why software producers still sell boxed products or why people still buy physical CDs or DVDs - the feeling of ownership. Signing up to unknown future costs, even if one may have paid these anyway, is not something people like. Businesses don't mind so much if it makes commercial sense, because the transaction is impersonal and just have to be justified against alternatives and value to the operation.

As a hobbyist, I will regularly spend $199 on the latest plugin whim, which will often then sit in my plugin folder unused. In fact, my whole system often goes through long periods unused, due to other priorities, interests, practice, inspiration, etc. I'm fine with that and would be happy to continue along those lines and could well end up paying for every forseeable Pro Tools upgrade ... but I don't want to commit to that now because I like to control my spending, Mac upgrades, etc.

Evidently, Avid is not interested in my business and is now solely in the business of tools for pros. As things stand, I would now benefit from the next major release being a long way off, with PT11 seeing as many OS compatibility updates as possible.
  #904  
Old 10-27-2014, 03:04 AM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Love the five stages of grief and Ricardo Montalban posts, they remind me of one from my former career in safety management, which is borderline appropriate, as it relates to the hierarchy by which you should attempt to control hazards/risks ... ERICPD ...

E = Eliminate (so you're not exposed to it any more)
R = Reduce (limit the time you're exposed, or substitute a less risky alternative)
I = Isolate (by distancing yourself from it)
C = Control (change method of work, or introduce engineering controls)
P = PPE (use personal protective equipment, as a temporary last resort)
D= Discipline (through clear communication of rules, procedures, best practice)

Where are each of us in that regime, I wonder?
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Digi 003 Console, Focusrite Octopre and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad with Thunderbolt card, Apollo Twin mk11 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2018, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3.
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And then there's the studio ;-)
  #905  
Old 10-27-2014, 03:13 AM
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nigelpry nigelpry is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbil View Post
My counteroffer to Avid is $597 for three (3) years of non-expiring Pro Tools HD upgrades that results in a permanent, perpetual license that encapsulates those incremental software upgrades and updates during that term.* In doing so, Avid would agree to not lock Pro Tools from any third-party audio interface or any currently marketed Avid-branded device (including, but not limited to audio interfaces, consoles, and controllers) during that 3-year term. Avid would also agree that if Pro Tools or Avid's audio division or any Avid entity with ultimate legal rights and authority to the Pro Tools properties were to be spun-off from Avid Technology, Inc. or sold to a third-party, then the above 3-year licensing agreement would be honored by the resulting spun-off entity or third-party or an equivalent cash value be prorated and returned to the 3-year license purchaser for the amount of time remaining in contract.
And that demonstrates the madness of this whole situation. WE ALL WANT TO CARRY ON USING PRO TOOLS!

If Avid came to us cap in hand, admitted they were having some problems, needed cash now, and offered a deal like that, I'd sign up!

It's the whole smoke and mirrors, disinformation, ambiguity and inept coercive attempt to extract money that has people riled.

Avid totally fails to understand the true nature of its user base, and in that way is gradually signing its own death warrant. As Avid's policies become more and more desperate, they begin to show signs of being its death throes.

What a sad, sad situation :-(
__________________
Mac Pro 2009 with 2010 firmware, 12-Core 3.46ghz, 64gb RAM & working Thunderbolt, OS 10.13.6 and Windows 10
Macbook Pro 2011 17", 2.2ghz i7, 16gb RAM OS 10.12.6
Digi 003 Console, Focusrite Octopre and MOTU Traveler for extra analog-ADAT conversion, UAD Apollo Quad with Thunderbolt card, Apollo Twin mk11 and pci-e Octo, Adam A77X monitors.
Pro Tools 2018, Media Composer 8.9, Sibelius 8.7, Cubase Pro 10, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3.
Various apps, soft synths, FX plugins.
Plenty of hardware synths, rack gear, microphones etc.
And then there's the studio ;-)
  #906  
Old 10-27-2014, 07:32 AM
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::F-L-E-X:: ::F-L-E-X:: is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

I totally agree with the idea of one unified Pro Tools platform that competes with other DAWS - this alone would encourage new users. I think it would be naive to suggest the majority of HD users would rather pay $599 instead of $199 in order to 'protect their investment'.

I don't however agree that PT should be locked to the hardware as this prohibits new users from even considering Pro Tools as an option. SOS (magazine) recently highlighted 8 highly respected alternatives to Avid's I/O interfaces. Pro Tools may have been more stable in the past, but that was largely down to OS's rather than PT itself. The transition to 64 bit was never going to be smooth… but we are getting there.

If there really must be a division between HD & 'Vanilla', how about this for a radical idea :

- Charge HD users $199pa for a years support & upgrades.
- Charge non HD users $99pa for a years upgrades (but no support).
After all, it's the high end HD users who are more likely to benefit from the support.

The plans Avid have unveiled are essentially a subscription model - just that you're paying a year upfront as opposed to on a monthly basis. Although it may be prudent to stick your PT asset on another (never synced) ilok, I imagine we're not too far away from a Cloud based authorisation procedure such as Waves' WLC (which works very well btw).
  #907  
Old 10-27-2014, 07:51 AM
RussUK RussUK is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelpry View Post
And that demonstrates the madness of this whole situation. WE ALL WANT TO CARRY ON USING PRO TOOLS!

Avid totally fails to understand the true nature of its user base, and in that way is gradually signing its own death warrant. As Avid's policies become more and more desperate, they begin to show signs of being its death throes.

What a sad, sad situation :-(
This might help see where people stand http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...time-poll.html
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  #908  
Old 10-27-2014, 08:18 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

Quote:
Originally Posted by RussUK View Post
This might help see where people stand http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home...time-poll.html
Thanks for the poll, Russ!

Any inside track on when/if Tony plans to comment properly on all of this (beyond what he already shared on PTE)? JFreak implied that they had been banging their heads around a table already. Should we be holding our combined breaths - members here are still debating as if Avid are listening?!
  #909  
Old 10-27-2014, 08:20 AM
Alfalfa Alfalfa is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

I wonder if you could ask a follow up question to your poll for those who think they'll be using PT in five years? Which version of Pro Tools do you think you will be using in five years?
  #910  
Old 10-27-2014, 08:22 AM
Jay_uk Jay_uk is offline
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Default Re: New Licensing

While we are having this water cooler moment, i was thinking about backward compatibility, from a project studio point of view using PT11 Vanilla.
If you dont jump on the plan, and then down the line you wish to use a pro studio: would the pro studio be able to use your PT files?….normal plug in incompatibility being a given.
I mean (puts on cynics hat ) Will it be a case of ..your not on the plan so we cant assist you.Unless of course you are using a pro studio that is PT11 HD and they have also not jumped on the plan.
Its just chit -chat but i,m curious.
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