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  #31  
Old 02-25-2020, 06:51 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
I'm with Jack on this one, I'll believe it when I see it! At this point, I'm not sure that AAX version alone will make me jump. What I want, and what I know MANY have wanted ever since Reason 9.5 came out with VST hosting, is for VST hosting to available within PT with Reason in slave mode (Now as a plugin). The reason is simple: Reason offers a unique and simple way to combine multiple VI's and plugins in one rack that offers rich sound design possibilities. As I've said many times, once Reason allowed VST hosting, it became the most powerful VI out there, because it is, in effect every VI combined however you wish.



So, will I jump at JUST aax? I doubt it. AAX and VST hosting - that's a no brainer!

That will never happen. Use patchwork and be happy with reason's devices.

If reason comes out as an aax, I would put anyone not buying at least the intro version as really missing out and self masochistic. Seriously.
The stuff you get for $99 ($49 on sale).. It's worth it just for Dr Octorex and Thor's tasty formant filter as well as Europa! All included in intro!
https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/reason/comparison

Upgrade when you feel like it to get all the other goodies. I wouldn't mind the expanded step sequencers in Reason.

Why do we need them to control battery (for example)? we can load ANY one shot sample we want into reason's excellent drummers.. that's good enough for me!

I personally don't get the vst sub hosting desire.. reason is not great with VSTs as it is, and props are not going to release something that could bring your entire DAW down.. they will only release it as 100% rock solid, which means RE's and their own gear.

You can use any RE in plugin mode.. there are hundreds of them.. some really great unique stuff.. Just be happy and enjoy :)

Peace.
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  #32  
Old 02-25-2020, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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Rewire never bothered me all that much. I never understood why it was only a one-way street, but that's another issue. I still use 9.5 via Rewire so I can use some of the RE VI's.
It's a two way street but props did not allow reason to be a slave, only a master from memory.. it was entirely by choice.. they could have enabled both master/slave functionality (as is evident by reaper having two way rewire).. that was a really quirky decision i have to say. I can't remember which way they wired it but yeah it is definitely only one way.. was it master or slave? is my memory failing me? hehe.

PS i never had issues with rewire. I still use it for melodyne 4, waves tune and nectar 2 graphic pitch mode. All good.
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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Originally Posted by TNM View Post
It's a two way street but props did not allow reason to be a slave, only a master from memory.. it was entirely by choice.. they could have enabled both master/slave functionality (as is evident by reaper having two way rewire).. that was a really quirky decision i have to say. I can't remember which way they wired it but yeah it is definitely only one way.. was it master or slave? is my memory failing me? hehe.

PS i never had issues with rewire. I still use it for melodyne 4, waves tune and nectar 2 graphic pitch mode. All good.

I've never had issues with Rewire either. The reason I'd really like the VST hosting is that it will open up some fantastic sound design possibilities using VI's that aren't in RE, such as Synapse Audio's Dune 3, which I use a lot, or Serum. You can layer some things up with Combinator, for example, so much easier than with Patchwork or directly in PT. That's why...at least for me.
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  #34  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
I've never had issues with Rewire either. The reason I'd really like the VST hosting is that it will open up some fantastic sound design possibilities using VI's that aren't in RE, such as Synapse Audio's Dune 3, which I use a lot, or Serum. You can layer some things up with Combinator, for example, so much easier than with Patchwork or directly in PT. That's why...at least for me.
Oh you don't need to explain it, I totally get it.. My point was merely saying "there is still so much on offer for the money, particularly with intro".

Have you tried reason 10/11 at all? Apparently vst plugin performance is not great, and they have had a legion of incompatibility issues with various VST.

This is why they added the midi out in the update released just a few days ago.

The reason rack plugin and all it's players, sequencers etc can now control any VST anyway.. isn't this an acceptable work around, since the external plugins can still be hosted in the main DAW?

I presume IF the aax version comes out, that since pro tools has very easy midi in selection per track, they would keep that feature. :)
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2020, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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...Have you tried reason 10/11 at all? Apparently vst plugin performance is not great, and they have had a legion of incompatibility issues with various VST...

I was actually a beta tester for 10. I have 9.5.x. I've not really had any major issue with VST hosting, but, yes, there have been a couple of weird things. One in particular is completely baffling to me. With Dune 3, if I put it in the rack as a standalone VI, for some reason, when I call up the MIDI controller to play it, the number of active voices changes to 6. I had a patch using only 2 of the 8 voices, and as soon as I went to the MIDI channel with Dune, it jumped from 2 to 6. However...and this is where it gets really odd...if I first put Dune 3 in a Combinator...no issues. No idea.



There were a few other oddities with a few of the AIR expansion pack VI's too. But I think AIR ironed those out with Reason. Otherwise, I haven't noticed too many issues with that.



I use Reason 9.6 with different VST's on my laptop when I play in the worship team at my church. I create all my voices, and set up the various VIs in the Rack and then use the Church's Yamaha MOXF to control everything. What's nice is the Motif has a separate gain fader for the audio coming via the USB connection from Reason on my laptop, so I can blend in some Reason sounds with Motif sounds if I want that way. Also, in the Motif's Master Mode, I can set up up to 4 keyboard zones, each with its own MIDI out channel. Makes things real easy on Sunday morning. I just push 1 button to go from one song's set up to the next because its all pre-done!
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  #36  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:10 AM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

I use the MOXF also.. fantastic underrated hardware with the full motif expanded set, just some small things missing like aftertouch (but I have that with my AN1X anyway ).

Glad to read Reason has been relatively stable for you with VST. Personally, I left it after a brief stint cause at the time it lacked ADC (and it's still not really done properly as visual compensation for latent effects and automation compensation is missing, which PT does both). The other reason was the abysmal performance vs EVERY other daw on the same mac. It's just playing catch up now with it's new buffer system. What people could never seem to understand when they were telling me reason (at the time) processed everything at 64 buffer block size regardless of setting, was that I was getting double or more performance in cubase at the time before asio guard was invented, at 64 buffer.. which means cubase was at 64 buffer the whole time too. I just gave up as it all got very nasty, and from the demo of version 10 (not 11, yet), it was still the most overall inefficient DAW on the market for me. Note, I had a brand new imac pro then, not the previous computers I had tested on. so....Can't all be faulty macs.

This is why I think their midi out idea is kind of brilliant. It is leaving all the plugin performance hosting to the main DAW, and allowing you to use all of reason's light built in devices in the plugin itself.. You didn't comment on the midi out which surprised me, so I thought maybe you missed it? Isn't this an acceptable workaround with what they added in the just released 11.2?
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  #37  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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...

It's just playing catch up now with it's new buffer system. What people could never seem to understand when they were telling me reason (at the time) processed everything at 64 buffer block size regardless of setting, was that I was getting double or more performance in cubase at the time before asio guard was invented, at 64 buffer.. which means cubase was at 64 buffer the whole time too. I just gave up as it all got very nasty, and from the demo of version 10 (not 11, yet), it was still the most overall inefficient DAW on the market for me. Note, I had a brand new imac pro then, not the previous computers I had tested on. so....Can't all be faulty macs.

This is why I think their midi out idea is kind of brilliant. It is leaving all the plugin performance hosting to the main DAW, and allowing you to use all of reason's light built in devices in the plugin itself.. You didn't comment on the midi out which surprised me, so I thought maybe you missed it? Isn't this an acceptable workaround with what they added in the just released 11.2?

Are you saying that no matter what buffer setting I choose in preferences on Reason it is defaulting to 64 anyways? That would explain a lot! I've been mystified why some of my patches, which work just fine in Pro Tools cause Reason to choke, even with buffer settings of 256 or 512. This would explain that, if I'm understanding you correctly.


As for the MIDI, no I didn't miss it, and I'm really glad to see them doing it, believe me. Yes, it can solve some of the things I mentioned. However, its still not as elegant has being able to do it all in, say, 1 combinator, with 3 or 4 different VI's stacked up, some of the Reason FX (or other RE's) added, plugged into the line mixer, to make one great patch, saved all at once in ONE Combinator patch. That's where, to me, allowing VST hosting would make Reason shine!



Does the new MIDI routing have virtual cable connections like audio does on the reverse side of the rack? That's something I've suggested to them more than once.
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  #38  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

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Originally Posted by DonaldM View Post
Are you saying that no matter what buffer setting I choose in preferences on Reason it is defaulting to 64 anyways? That would explain a lot! I've been mystified why some of my patches, which work just fine in Pro Tools cause Reason to choke, even with buffer settings of 256 or 512. This would explain that, if I'm understanding you correctly.


As for the MIDI, no I didn't miss it, and I'm really glad to see them doing it, believe me. Yes, it can solve some of the things I mentioned. However, its still not as elegant has being able to do it all in, say, 1 combinator, with 3 or 4 different VI's stacked up, some of the Reason FX (or other RE's) added, plugged into the line mixer, to make one great patch, saved all at once in ONE Combinator patch. That's where, to me, allowing VST hosting would make Reason shine!



Does the new MIDI routing have virtual cable connections like audio does on the reverse side of the rack? That's something I've suggested to them more than once.

Not in R11 but any version prior, yes. Everything processed at a 64 block size. Someone at reason forums explained it in detail a while back.

As for your last question, I am not quite sure.. I have yet to demo the product and really won't bother unless a native AAX comes out.. why do it otherwise now that we know it doesn't work in blue cat? If they want to exclude PT users, they can stick it. We are a real market that so many devs just ignore and it's their loss.
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  #39  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

I hear that! And thanks for the explanation! Glad to know I wasn’t going crazy when Simone patches clogged!


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  #40  
Old 04-14-2020, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Reason 11 in Windows as VST3

Just wanted to let you know that we will release the AAX version of Reason Rack Plugin on May 5. Sign up here to get notified when it's out!
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