setting up an analog studio with pro tools?

[sethbrand]

Ok guys, this will probably be a long one. I plan on eventually setting up my own recording studio and trying to survive in this business. I have been debating between recording and mixing in the box (all digital) or out of the box and going analog. I know digital is much cheaper, but I can see myself getting bored eventually going only digital. Anyways, over the past few days I have been trying to figure out a way to record 32 channels into an analog mixer into pro tools le so that they are each on their OWN individual channel in pro tools. Then I would need to get them all out and back into the mixer for mixing/monitoring/etc. I don't want to have to group channels together, I want to be able to send them all individually and have them returned individually. I know you can't link two digi 002's together, so here is what I was thinking: tell me what you think:

1. Mixer- Mackie 32-8 (this mixer has tape returns on all 32 channels for mixing/monitoring)
2. Digi 002R for interface (i will plug 8 channels into this using the 8 inserts and send 8 out using the 8 outputs back to the mixer)
3. I will then have an 8 channel mic pre/interface connected via ADAT to the digi 002R for 8 more channels in and out
4. Then I plan on getting maybe the TASCAM 1884 to connect to the digi 002R via firewire ( i will plug 8 more channels into this
5. finally i will get another 8 channel mic pre/interface for 8 more channels into the TASCAM via ADAT

this should give me 32 in and 32 out of pro tools back to the mixer. is there a problem with this set up that im missing? how would my audio be converted to digital and is that going to be good quality. Is there a better way to do it?

This set up should give me 32 channels in and out of pro tools simultaneously to be mixed in analog, and then I could also mix digitally if I wanted...right???

[M.Brane]

You can only get 18 simultanious I/O with LE. 8 on the 002, 8 via ADAT, and 2 S/PDIF. That's it.

[spkguitar]

is there a problem with this set up that im missing?

Yes. #4 and #5 are impossible. Pro Tools LE cannot use any other hardware besides Digidesign as audio I/O. As M.Brane already mentioned, with LE you are limited to 18 I/O.

You're also missing a basic fact; most people who mix "outside the box" do so because of the high quality of the audio gear that they are mixing on (Neve, SSL, etc). Mackie, IMHO, does not fit into that category.

[mickeymassacre]

Yes. #4 and #5 are impossible. Pro Tools LE cannot use any other hardware besides Digidesign as audio I/O. As M.Brane already mentioned, with LE you are limited to 18 I/O.

You're also missing a basic fact; most people who mix "outside the box" do so because of the high quality of the audio gear that they are mixing on (Neve, SSL, etc). Mackie, IMHO, does not fit into that category.

true, yes and no. but the thing is, using a mackie can still have its advantages over a "box" system, more EQ without bogging down the processor, inserts for outboard gear, and of course more play with aux sends, talkback and monitoring as well.

with a 002 you can use your mackie as a split console where 16 channels are mics, and the other 16 are returns. other than that, i suggest getting M-powered, and running a LightBridge... which from this and other forums i have HEARD (not tried yet) will work.


in Mackie's defense... their pre's still sound better to me than the cough cough "focusrite" pres in the 001 and 002's.

[mickeymassacre]

stupid double post. pardon me.

[M.Brane]

I've never had a problem with EQ plugs eating up CPU, and most plugs are better than Mackie EQ.

I agree that Mackie pres get a bad rap. They are pretty good as long as you don't run 'em up too high. They just don't have any "character" which is many times a good thing. Just depends on what you're looking for in tracking.

[mickeymassacre]

I've never had a problem with EQ plugs eating up CPU, and most plugs are better than Mackie EQ.

I agree that Mackie pres get a bad rap. They are pretty good as long as you don't run 'em up too high. They just don't have any "character" which is many times a good thing. Just depends on what you're looking for in tracking.

i like the ability to run as many eq's as i have channels, and with an outboard console it makes it easier to get some decent subtractive EQ straight to "tape". I like the SSL plug ins for EQ but those eat up space when you are running 20+ channels with compressors and gates blah blah besides nothing beats a good 1176 or a dbx 160 etc...

[mcgirr]

If I might stick my two cents in, for what it is worth.(lol)

The real key to audio production is to capture the sound you are looking for right off of the bat.
It seems you MIGHT have a facination w/ eq that is unhealthy. If the sound is correctly recorded your eq needs should be minimal, at best.

This is certainly not meant as a knock at you, so PLEASE do not take it that way.

And unless you have a quality console the eq channels are not going to impart much "magic" anyway.

I use a vlz pro for my mixing.(lol again.) but.... I am by no means claiming to obtain a professional studio sheen.

The true measure of an engineer/producer is to avoid the heavy use of eq. This is not possible in ALL cases, I realize that much.

It seems you would be much better served to expand your input/ output matrix to as many ins as you feel you will need to record at one time. Very rarely will you need more than say 16 inputs recording at once. Even this amount is enough to record a FULL orchestra, band or whatever.

I am always skeptical of people who claim to have 24+ track sessions. What the heck is on all those channels? I am positive they wouldnt miss at least 8 of those if you took them off completely. A little forethought would almost certainly cut down the number of tracks used.

The Beatles did it all on 4 or 8 track for Christ sake!!!!!

As an example if you ran 3 delta 10/10 rackmounts you would have 24 in and outs at once.(probably never using the last 8 to record, only playback.)

If dsp power consumtion in pro tools is an issue....
Add a Universal Audio dsp card to the rig. Running the new Neve eq plugs on a rig like this should provide you with all the eq needs you could ask for on the mixdown.(if not add a second UA card.)

You already have the Mackie to provide you with the preamps(not the best, but not the worst either.) and also to provide the playback and overdub ability.
If you happen to own a great preamp (ie.. La-610, 6176, focusrite, avalon ect..) use these on your KEY tracks. This will allow much more native plugin processing inside pro tools for the other tracks.

I love my Mackie as well, it has given me quality, steady and reliable service but...
There is no way I would ever rely on the eq's that are onboard it.

Not trying to stir the pot, just offering a different scenario!

Best Wishes to all.

[albee1952]

"Mackie's defense... their pre's still sound better to me than the cough cough "focusrite" pres in the 001 and 002's. " the pre's in the 001 and 002 are not and never were focusrite. I concur on making it sound right going in and will use a plugin EQ before any cheapo analog EQ which will add as much noise and phase shift as it does tone. Not trashing Mackie as their products work quite well for their intended purpose. For me, the sonic sacrifice is not worth the percieved convenience. I'm an old analog guy but have chosen to use protools completely "in the box" and have never felt deprived. Would I like a more elegant controller? Sure, but until I can afford HD and a D-Command, I will keep working it as is. Just one old dog's 2 cents.

[pentagon]

Hi sethbrand
ran into same dillema over and over and here are my conclusions
If you're thinking economy, go "in the box". real mixers with real outboard require real cables, racks, maintenance and realestate; plus you never have enough!

Having said that, this is exactly how I work myself; but I don't expect to make money.
If recording 32 simultanious channels is essential and you still want to edit and mix in PT, my suggestion is:

M-Audio Lightbridge
2x Creamware M16 Ultra convertors
Cheapest software capable of 32 live inputs
Import raw audio into PT for the rest of the way.

This combination along with the Mackie gives the preamps you need to record and the option to mix "in" or "out" as you please, and add outboard when you can afford to.