making the jump from analogue desk to s3, work flow advice please

[reuben.d]

Hi there,
ive spent my life always using some sort of desk to run outputs from protools when tracking, headphones and talkback and studio speakers ect , even though i ultimately mix 'itb'
Im now in a different country and setting up a studio from scratch, and i seems like everyone is talking about things like the slate raven, s3, and dock. So this is what im looking at getting.

This will change my work flow in tracking somewhat, what i used to do is have say outputs 1 and 2 from the avid 192 going to the analogue desk and what ever i was overdubbing, say vocals, i would send on outputs 3 and so on. So that as im listening to the tracking i can take the main mix in and out of the speakers as i see fit, and it doesn't change anything thats happening on the protools session or the headphone mix, as the aux's are all pre fader.

My question is, the s3 is just a remote for protools, how do guys handle headphone mixes and tracking and overdubbing and sends to different speakers without a normal desk?

thanks Reuben

[arche3]

If just s3 monitor controller. Use Like a dangerous monitor ST. Or similar. But you really need an xmon to properly feed cues imo. I use a d control so I use an xmon for cues and talk back. And dangerous monitor ST for speaker control.

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[albee1952]

Going from an analog console to a control surface is going to take plenty of getting used to(no matter what control surface). The Slate touch-screens are certainly worth a look(lots of videos between the Slate website and youtube).

As for headphone mixes, how many outputs(analog) do you have available? How many separate HP mixes do you need? Do you have a headphone amp? My personal fave for features vs price, is the ART HeadAmp 6 Pro. There are several ways to do headphones and here are the 2 methods I used:

#1-(assuming only 8 outputs) I sent the main stereo mix to the main inputs of the amp(the headphone amp). I then took 4 mono outputs and fed(via special cables you have to build yourself) into the AUX inputs of 4 sections of the HP amp. Those were fed by 4 mono sends(on every track in the session) so that each(of 4 players) could have "more me" on top of the main mix.(the special cables are TS at the output/interface and TRS at the HP amp. Wired so the tip of TS connects to tip AND ring at the TRS end(so your mono signal hits both sides of the phones)

#2-(with lots of available outputs) I fed 6 pairs of outputs from sends on every track in the session. First pair of outputs feed the main input of the HP amp for output #1. Using what is usually called a TRS insert cable(TRS to dual TS) the next pairs of outputs would feed the AUX in for sections 2 thru 6 of the HP amp.

In either case, if you open a typical(for you) session that is all tracked, you can plug a set of phones in to each section of the HP amp and set yourself a suitable mix for each player. Once you get mixes roughed in, save that session as your recording template(without media). The next time you record, create your new session from that session template and your headphone mixes will be nearly done right out of the gate I always used the same outputs for Vocal booth, bass player, Egtr player, Drummer, Acoustic booth and key station. I rarely made more than a handful of adjustments for players(and save session templates for each band if you have lots of repeat business). Good headphone mixes will get you repeat business as players love it when they have good HP mixes

Both scenarios above assume a computer with enough power to track your usual inputs at a low buffer(64 is my setting for all tracking). Also, avoid tracking with high-latency plugins. My max ADC number for tracking was 11 samples(combination of softube Console 1 plugin) and I never had any complaints about HP latency unless I did something wrong Got lots of deeper advice, but first, work thru getting things to work(get fancy later on)

[reuben.d]

thanks heaps for the input,
firstly,
i looked at the dangerous monitor, its quite expensive, does it really need to be that good a quality? isn't it just a way to get from the back of the avid io to an option of speakers?

next thing,
we are looking at getting 3x apollo 8x, so will have heaps of outputs.
i have actually used the ART HeadAmp 6 Pro and it works real good, so your saying instead of using a analogue desk auxes, you do it internally in protools and take it out of the back of the io. that makes sense.

i was actually looking at the hearback system or something similer for the headphones. or even better is there an app so guys can do there own mixes from ipads? We do this live with the midus pro.

also how do you get a talkback button and mic going, does the s3 or the dock do this?

thanks again

[reuben.d]

thanks heaps for the feedback,
i looked into the dangerous monitor , it looks real good, but at a price, is there something a bit cheeper and maybe is a bit simpler, just mostly used to get the sound from the io to a few different monitors.

next, we are looking at 3x apollo 8x so heaps of outputs.
that makes sense to use the internal aux sends of protools and send them through the io outputs.

was wondering is there is an ipad app that can control protools so the players can control their own mixes. we do this live using the midus pro and ipads.

also for talkback, does the s3 or the dock do this, like with a button, or is that going to be something like the dangerous monitor?
thanks again

[reuben.d]

and i cant seem to find too much info on the xmon, what is it? do you maybe have a video link?

[albee1952]

Not sure, but I think the S3 has no X-Mon control at all(so it would be wasted money). Knowing what interface the OP is using is an important detail....

[arche3]

I'm not familiar with s3 and dock. I'm surprised it doesn't do any talkback or cues. Or support xmon. S6 uses xmon as well. So I thought all avid controllers used it.

The dangerous monitor st is expensive but it does talkback. You can send different sources to cues, etc. If I just ran a protools rig without a control surface I can easily manage with it. There are cheaper options but you miss out on the talkback. Main to cues, alt input to cues, etc... multiple speaker including subwoofer management. Too many good things to mention.

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[BScout]

XMON:

http://avid.force.com/pkb/servlet/fi...ent_1__Body__s

It is Eucon controllable.

Originally Posted by albee1952

Not sure, but I think the S3 has no X-Mon control at all(so it would be wasted money).

More info on Dock controllability/integration from Eddie Jones

http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2522221&postcount=32
http://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=2522339&postcount=34

TL;DR
XMON will work with the Dock/Control App

[reuben.d]

thanks again for the advise, I'll do some research, sorry about the double reply, i didn't think the first one had worked.
peace