MacPro HDX OMNI to MacStudio M2 Carbon?

[SD2]

Hello everyone,

Not sure this is the right section of the forum to post this but none reflects exactly my question...

My Mac Pro 2012 is showing serious signs of tiredness, it just failed me in the middle of a project (had to finish on the MBP).
I think it's the video card (which I'll replace tomorrow when I get a new one) but I also got other "warning signs"...

Time to update I think.

I'm running PT Ultimate 2020 on a Mac Pro 2012 with HDX1 and an OMNI.
I have both Artist Control and mix which I intend to replace with 2 S1 and a Dock.
I need 3 displays (2 monitors for PT/system and 1 HDMI for a giant TV).

I'm considering leaving HDX behind and going full (well, half full regarding Carbon) native.
I'm mostly using native plugins anyway (Fabfilters for example) and few DSPs (McDSP M1000, Sonnox dynamic and Revibe) which, I guess Carbon's chips could handle (if not, nevermind).

I'm working in post mixing mainly documentaries, short films, eventually feature films (pre-mixing), both in stereo and 5.1 (no Dolby ATMOS for now).

I was considering a Mac Studio M2 Ultra (or Max?...) with a Carbon interface (MTRX seems a little over equipped for my need?...).
Does it seems like a good choice to you? Will it be sufficient to replace the HDX card or should I keep it?
Is there any trap I could be missing (in terms of connectivity, compatibility, power, etc....)?

Any advises/warnings/tips would be highly appreciated since I can't afford to make a mistake considering the amount of money involved!...
Thanks.

Mat

[smurfyou]

I don't think you'll miss the HDX card. Unless you're recording to picture ala ADR. Carbon has no way to sync to video but if you don't already have a Sync HD you won't miss it anyway. You'll be fine running natively.

Plan ahead for which hub/dock you need for ports. You'll likely need more USB ports. Carbon needs its own qualified Ethernet port. Decide how you will connect your two monitors.

What are you currently using for your HDMI display? You might need a Thunderbolt video peripheral like Aja or Blackmagic.

Also, the Artist Control still works (for now). Unless you want to buy everything all at once. You can add the Dock and S1's later.

Check your plugin versions. Some of them might need a paid update if you aren't current with them. A few still aren't Apple Silicon compatible but almost all the big ones are now. Start collecting the installers now.

Lots of planning involved since so many things will be different than what you have. When you have a solid plan post here and maybe some other users can help.

[Darryl Ramm]

Why look at Carbon and not MTRX Studio? This just seems the wrong hammer to screw that screw in with.

MTRX Studio gives you the flexibility of HDX and Sync X etc. support, or Thunderbolt 3 support, has DADMan, is a better platform for Atmos in future etc. Carbon would have zero appeal for me unless tracking music, and even then I would want to test one extensively because of concerns about latency/ADC problems in Carbon/hybrid.

If you kept the HDX card you can't use it with Carbon, and the Omni is of minimal use as well, you could hang it off the Carbon as an ADAT preamp, but not the way to go.

And if the main problem here is the computer, then you could just replace that to start with, but if I was going to get rid of the HDX then I would likely just leave that system alone and get a Mac Studio with MTRX Studio and set that up fresh. And once everything is working look at selling the old gear.

[SD2]

Thanks a lot for your inputs, really appreciated.
MTRX seems a bit "too big" for my needs (and more expensive) but I have to seriously think about it indeed.
Best.

[Darryl Ramm]

Why do you keep saying MTRX? MTRX and MTRX II and MTRX Studio are totally different products. I am talking about MTRX Studio.

[LDS]

I was in exactly the same boat as you, doing similar work on a HDX2 system with 2013 Mac Pro. I ditched it all after running some tests with a powerful new computer late last year. In 400-500 voice post sessions I can punch in at 32 sample buffers of the equivalent of about 1.5 HDX cards worth of live inputs and DSP processing. I wasn’t really prepared for the results. I was planning on keeping one HDX card to use with the Hybrid engine, but the native computer is so powerful by comparison that the limited amount of DSP on a single HDX card reduced the size of the punch ins I could do!

With that in mind, I would avoid the Carbon. It has a dismal amount of DSP processing power compared to what an Apple Silicon Ultra machine offers. It also has absolutely terrible native latency. The worst of both worlds, really. Upgrading computers sounds like a great idea. If you have the chance, use it to do some tests with your current hardware. If you do, and find your can’t quite figure out the point of HDX in your workflows you’ll know for sure that the Carbon, as a significantly lesser and more limited DSP platform than HDX, will be a total waste of your time.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by SD2

Thanks a lot for your inputs, really appreciated.
MTRX seems a bit "too big" for my needs (and more expensive) but I have to seriously think about it indeed.
Best.

The MTRX Studio is basically the updated replacement for the Avid Omni. With its immersive format support, it can be a little overkill for 5.1 mixing. $800 USD more than a Carbon. For an additional $800 you can add a TB3 card and skip digilink altogether. Doing so comes with the benefit of being able to play audio out of Pro Tools and every other application at the same time without the annoying workarounds required by HDX/Omni setups.

Once you are in native, you do have a whole bunch of interface choices. RME, Apogee, Metric Halo, Lynx, etc.

[SD2]

OK, I guess Carbon isn't the greatest idea...
I'm indeed gonna start by buying a new computer and run tests while keeping working on the current setup (assuming my MacPro will come back to life after replacing the video card...).

Leaving HDX behind came in mind because:
1/Native processing seems so powerfull now (M1/M2),
2/I'm having trouble with it upon start up (almost every time the interface/HDX card isn't seen and I have to restart 1 to 2 times) which isn't a good sign,
3/It would make everything simplier : no need for a HDX chassis, no need to isolate the setup (mac+card+...) in another room with cables/extensions/etc...

Regarding the interface, MTRX Studio (see I did it...) or other, I need a silent (I'm recording foleys and sometimes comedians in the same room I'm mixing in), reliable (=well integrated in PT) and qualitative interface.
But I can deal with that later.

Thanks again for your help.

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by SD2

Regarding the interface, MTRX Studio (see I did it...) or other, I need a silent (I'm recording foleys and sometimes comedians in the same room I'm mixing in), reliable (=well integrated in PT) and qualitative interface.
But I can deal with that later.

Thanks again for your help.

In that case it should be pointed out that MTRX Studio is not exactly "well-integrated" in PT. It has an external program (DADMan) to manage it and act as a mixer and router. It is incredibly powerful and flexible but not tidy. So not much different than a 3rd party interface in that regard.

It is among the best. Along with the others mentioned by LDS.

[Darryl Ramm]

But what the heck does "well integrated into Pro Tools" even mean? You likely want DADman, and the fact it comes from DAD and works well and is supported by them across all their interfaces including Avid badged ones is a plus. DADman could look prettier, but its some of the most flexible routing/monitoring software out there. Ditto with DAD providing the Thunderbolt 3 driver, its likely better supported than any driver from Avid.

MTRX Studio was designed for modern multichannel video post, Carbon was designed for music tracking and arguably the "integration in Pro Tools" with hybrid engine is problematic with ongoing latency/ADC problems and low amount of DSP power. Details matter, and there is no way looking at any of the details here I would ever be considering Carbon for this use. If MTRX Studio is absolutely too expensive and CoreAudio interfaces are OK then look at third party interfaces. But I would want DADman and all the help available from folks working with it and MTRX Studio in post available on DUC.