Mixers... what do they do exactly?

[confusedhelp]

my question is... really, what does a mixer do (ie. Mackie mixers)?
doesn't Pro Tools already have a mixer (in there software)?
like i see some people have Pro Tools then have this mixer on the side
anyways i hope u know what i'm talking about
as u can see from this question... i AM REALLY NEW and still learning
thanks

[accession]

my question is... really, what does a mixer do (ie. Mackie mixers)?
doesn't Pro Tools already have a mixer (in there software)?
like i see some people have Pro Tools then have this mixer on the side
anyways i hope u know what i'm talking about
as u can see from this question... i AM REALLY NEW and still learning
thanks

Here's my humble studio just after I got it set-up in my new place...
.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-...5/Studio-3.jpg
.
...and have since added a small MIDI keyboard, mouse, and chair (and now desperately needs some acoustic treatment and new curtains).

And thought it quite funny it matches your description perfectly!

So what's the fuss all about?

- My Mackie mixer came first, and a necessity for live gigs. In fact, it'll get used again for that.
- It's a patch bay. Though I have 4 stereo sources (equals the 8 inputs on the Digi002 Rack), I like the ability to manually and quickly set the gain (volume) for my synths and modules and route it through to a Pro Tools recording track.
- It's immediate. I can quickly reach for a volume fader in a hurry while getting an idea of how sounds are going to go together once recorded.
- Plus, there's zero latency, so I can play around live and hear it live, and not 1024samples later after it's passed through the computer.
- It provides a sketch pad for EQ to hear how things are going to sit "in the mix".
- It's a monitoring switcher: I can choose to listen to Pro Tools, or my iBook, or whatever, in an instant, and with a real volume control and meters.

All my mixing is done inside Pro Tools. So for the most part, I could get rid of the mixer, have everything permanently patched in the Digi002R, and still make music. I'd then have to live with the latency and limited gain control. Would be a right royal pain to use that way in a live setting.

Having said that, I've got the outputs from the Digi002R feeding back into the desk with the idea of having some control of "mixed" tracks, again for a live feel, but not a studio mixing sense. I'm not one to harp on about analogue board mixing sounds better than Pro Tools, and certainly not from a Mackie VLZ1604PRO.

Does that paint a picture for you at all?

[confusedhelp]

yeah i "kinda" get the picture but i do get what your saying
don't worry i'll learn as i go along
i guess with the mixing console it's more of a "hands-on/finger tips" kinda thing
but either mixing on the console or mixing in Pro Tools will get the job done i guess
but i do have another question: as u know the original Mbox does not have a monitor control and i been thinking of purchasing a pair of studio monitors
i was thinking of getting the Behringer Eurorack UB502 to control them
but i was wondering if i could control them with a mixer instead (for example let's say the Mackie CR1604-VLZ)
would that be possible?

thanks again for your reply
and oh yeah, nice setup by the way, very nice and clean

nice curtains too

[filosofem]

Hey Phil, love the studio, I see the AMT8 in that rack of yours, what else you got in there, apart from the 002R?






filosofem

[accession]

i guess with the mixing console it's more of a "hands-on/finger tips" kinda thing
but either mixing on the console or mixing in Pro Tools will get the job done i guess

Maybe... 'cept I don't "mix" with it as such.

When I'm triggering my synths/modules via MIDI, like a sketchpad, then yeah, I use the Mackie for a rough mix.

When I'm serious, the Mackie becomes a sophisticated patch bay to route each synth part one-by-one into Pro Tools, and this is where the real mixing takes place.

I've got limited skills with riding a dozen faders with my hands to create a mix in one pass on a desk. That's what a mouse and Pro Tools "in the box" mix automation is for!

but i do have another question: as u know the original Mbox does not have a monitor control and i been thinking of purchasing a pair of studio monitors
i was thinking of getting the Behringer Eurorack UB502 to control them
but i was wondering if i could control them with a mixer instead (for example let's say the Mackie CR1604-VLZ)
would that be possible?

Well, both the Behringer and Mackie devices you mentioned are both mixers, so yeah, you could.

With my Mackie (VLZ1604PRO), I can route any channel to one of four (sub group) outputs, or record from the master stereo out. I can also listen to the feed back from Pro Tools without any fear of creating a feedback loop (ie. recording what you are listening to which is then being recorded to then listened to.... round and round until it screams!)

The baby Behringer is going to be more primitive, and I'm not sure what sub outputs (if any) so you will have to get very creative with mute buttons while recording. In fact, it'd probably be a right royal pain in the ass - if not impossible - trying to listen along to Pro Tools via the mixer while you're also trying to record something into Pro Tools via the mixer - at the same time without feedback.

The CR1604VLZ will be more like my mixer, and allow sub grouping of parts to route to Pro Tools while simultaneously allowing you to listen to Pro Tools back through it at the same time.

A big(ger) mixer - not even as big as the two Mackies mentioned - would at least provide a stereo "alt" sub group (typically assigned when the mute butten is selected) that would work well.

and oh yeah, nice setup by the way, very nice and clean

nice curtains too

Haha... cheers. Will be neater still when I finish cabling it with lengths that actually reach. Gotta love IKEA for the furniture, though the purists will argue the monitors should be on something sturdier than these hollow-ish mini-filing cabinets are (though I'm looking to place them on stone blocks/pavers to give the monitors more height).

What gear are you working with (or planning to)? That will help (you/me) govern what mixer might suit you best (if any).

[filosofem]

When I'm serious, the Mackie becomes a sophisticated patch bay to route each synth part one-by-one into Pro Tools, and this is where the real mixing takes place.

Phil, could you go into more detail about that one, please?





filosofem

[accession]

Hey Phil, love the studio, I see the AMT8 in that rack of yours, what else you got in there, apart from the 002R?

Hi filosofem,

I'll try this again after I typed it up, hit reload by mistake, and lost the post...

From the top:

Rack:
- Mackie VLZ1604PRO
- Emagic AMT8
- Yamaha FS1R
- E-mu Proteus 2000 (with Composer, X-Lead, Techno, World ROMs)
- Lexicon MPX 500
- Digi002R

Keyboards:
- Yamaha AN1x
- Kawai K5000S

I'm enjoying getting back into it again following a break of a few years while we travelled and set ourselves up in a new state/job/lifestyle etc.

'Sif I'd consider even half of it if I were starting out today though. We're nearing the end of the era for the elaborate synth "museum" that we used to see regularly 5 or 10 years ago. Traffic around synth junkie forums, such as, www.the-gas-station.com has just about dried up of late. Sad in a way, seeing as a gazzillion random soft synths that may not see the next five years in development doesn't inspire the same sort of excitement from me.

Enough ramble, and cheers for the interest. What do you work with?

And look, we almost have our own thread this time round! Confusedhelp, please 'scuse us with our off-topic banter!

[filosofem]

Yeah, it's interesting looking at the gear people use and talking about why they choose that given device. Take for example, the Eventide Eclipse, it's one device on my want to get list, one, for it's Pitch Bending effects and plus the reputation of great reverbs. How do you find the Lexicon MPX 500? Out of all the devices that one could poke a stick at, why the Lexicon MPX 500? How do you find the routing capabilities?

Myself, I have a slow growing collection of Roland devices, Roland RS-9 and the Roland V-Synth XT and are also looking at the Roland SH-201, but not sure about this one, maybe one of these . I'm just starting to get into Analog Synthesis, how it works and why it works, so what's a better way to learn then actually having your own Analog Synthesizer, although that said, I do have the Moog Modular V2 RTAS softsynth, so hmmm...

We should really start our own General Discussion thread, Gear Talk, or something. Oh and speaking of gear talk, Vintage Synth Explorer is not a bad synth forum.

TTYL






filosofem

[accession]

Phil, could you go into more detail about that one, please?

filosofem

Yeah, sure... nothing much to it though.

I can record into Pro Tools from the Mackie via:
- Sub Out 1
- Sub Out 2
- Sub Out 3
- Sub Out 4
- Master Out (stereo)

So when I want to start recording segements of my MIDI sequences as audio, I'll use the mixer to:
- set a suitable gain (volume)
- decide whether a stereo synth (or whatever) shall be mono or stereo, then set the pan for the left/right channels accordingly.
- hit the Sub 1-2, Sub 3-4 button that corresponds to the channel with the synth (or whatever) I want to record, raise the appropriate sub/master fader, and voila!

In addition, I might also be running a MIDI sequence via Sub Outs 1/2 (ie. stereo) via Pro Tools to hear it with effects, though not yet ready to commit it to audio tracks...

...I still have Sub Outs 3 & 4 (plus the Master Stereo Out) to record other individual parts in isolation.

One particularly nice feature found on the VLZ1604PRO is the 4th Stereo Return can be set to feed the Control Room only. It's on this return that I bring Pro Tools back into the desk for monitoring, and as such, I never run into feedback issues as this Pro Tools return never enters any of the recording mix buses within the mixer. Without this feature, however, one could use the "tape return" and set it to feed the control room only for monitoring, and not feed back into the main mix.

How's that for detail?

[accession]

Yeah, it's interesting looking at the gear people use and talking about why they choose that given device. Take for example, the Eventide Eclipse, it's one device on my want to get list, one, for it's Pitch Bending effects and plus the reputation of great reverbs. How do you find the Lexicon MPX 500? Out of all the devices that one could poke a stick at, why the Lexicon MPX 500? How do you find the routing capabilities?

So why did I get it (aside being 1/4 of the price of the Eventide Eclipse )?

Back in the day of my G4 450MHz, I simply needed more power, and with reverb being the most CPU-intensive effec, the cheapest "upgrade" I could do was an external reverb unit. The Lexicon on reputation, going with the MPX 500, though the MPX-1 is the better sounding box according to others.

So all I use it for is reverb, with presets being selected from Pro Tools via MIDI, and the audio I/O running over S/PDIF so it's quite a clean, integrated, "plug-in" like experience.

But that's all. The better choice for the day, given my budget, would have been the TC Electronic M-One for the capability of running two simultaneous stereo effects, including two reverbs.

My biggest dissapointment with it is just how noisy the analogue outs are. For balanced, 24bit, blah blah blah electronics, the hiss is quite apparent.

You asked about routing? In what way? The internals are fairly limited given that it can only perform a stereo effect or two mono effects, and only one reverb at a time. And as I use it primarily for reverb, I don't get in to it's internals too much. Editing's a breeze though with the four knobs and clear LCD readout.

Myself, I have a slow growing collection of Roland devices, Roland RS-9 and the Roland V-Synth XT and are also looking at the Roland SH-201, but not sure about this one, maybe one of these . I'm just starting to get into Analog Synthesis, how it works and why it works, so what's a better way to learn then actually having your own Analog Synthesizer, although that said, I do have the Moog Modular V2 RTAS softsynth, so hmmm...

Yeah, I too consider adding a "real" analogue to the collection. I had the HS-60 years back (as discussed in the other thread) just frustrated me at its MIDI implementation, plus the sensors under the keys required regular cleaning to stop randdom notes from dropping out. Something modern, and as extensive as that link you provided would be fanatastic. I used to have my out for the original http://www.studioelectronics.com/products_se1x.php.

We should really start our own General Discussion thread, Gear Talk, or something. Oh and speaking of gear talk, Vintage Synth Explorer is not a bad synth forum.

TTYL

filosofem

Nah, hijacking other people's threads is more fun. Yeah, Vintage Synth Explorer is one of the best, though a shame the main site is no longer being developed as much as it used to be.