M-Powered vs. LE

[destroy_all_monsters]

Considering that this is brand-spanking-new I wouldn't expect to see anything about this on either site. There isn't even a compatibility list for it on compato. Best bet is to email support and sales at both companies if you're concerned. I think that with street pricing it is still a better deal than the mbox. I expect to see it drop to closer to $250 soon enough. Time will tell if it will work with 1010's (M-P PT) and/or multiple 1814s. That would make it a monster.

Overall, this is good news.

[yannick]

yeah, i have a 24/96 & an mbox & i dont understand why anybody would choose the 2496 & m-powered over the mbox & LE, the 2496 quality sucks! you basically NEED a mixer to run it (which bumps up the cost further) & the zero latency monitoring on the mbox kills the 24/96 off! i hated my 2496 with cubase & cant see it bing any different with Pro tools, i do still use it for midi, but most midi controllers have a USB option now anyway!

[destroy_all_monsters]

I bought an audiophile 192 not long ago and haven't had a chance to set it up yet. I know from having used the m-box that there's latency issues there. I'd like to hear more specifics on what it is you dislike about the 24/96 quality and why it would need a mixer. Granted I have a 192 which is slightly different I'd still find it educational to know the reasons behind your point of view.

One thing to keep in mind though is that at least with PTM-P you can buy in stages and use the hardware now prior to moving to PT. My experiences with the M-box's latency particularly in Midi hasn't been positive not to mention value for money (Mackie's Spike for example is - at least on paper- far better hardware). In time I think PTM-P will help bring the prices down further for PT systems and that's a good thing.

Sue me, I'm optimistic.

[mpark9000]

One thing to keep in mind though is that at least with PTM-P you can buy in stages and use the hardware now prior to moving to PT.

An Mbox has ASIO drivers. You can use it with almost anything, including PTLE.

[destroy_all_monsters]

That may be true (however I've only used the M-box on Mac systems), but it still has latency issues. Last I checked you couldn't buy an M-box w/o PTLE and for what you're getting hardware-wise there's more fully-featured hardware out there. I've never seen an M-Audio product in the last few years that didn't have ASIO drivers either. Perhaps I've missed your point. You can still get an 1814 for a heck of a lot less than an 002R with some great features.

It's a pity that PT won't run on commodity hardware but this is a start. M-audio also doesn't charge an arm and a leg for everything despite being owned by the same corporate masters.

[enb141]

In my opinion if you use another recording software (Cubase, Cakewalk, Logic) well the Pro Tools M-Powered will be your best choice because you can continue using those recording software with Pro Tools,

-M Powered is also a good choise for starters.

[mpark9000]

That may be true (however I've only used the M-box on Mac systems), but it still has latency issues. Last I checked you couldn't buy an M-box w/o PTLE and for what you're getting hardware-wise there's more fully-featured hardware out there. I've never seen an M-Audio product in the last few years that didn't have ASIO drivers either. Perhaps I've missed your point. You can still get an 1814 for a heck of a lot less than an 002R with some great features.

It's a pity that PT won't run on commodity hardware but this is a start. M-audio also doesn't charge an arm and a leg for everything despite being owned by the same corporate masters.

I don't know, maybe I'm the one missing your point. You were saying that an M-Audio interface is better because you can use other software until you move on to ProTools?

But you can use an MBox with other software and NOT use ProTools if you like. The latency issue is no better, and often worse on the M-Audio stuff I have used.

Sounds a little weird to me, why not start off on ProTools and save all the time and effort?

[destroy_all_monsters]

I'm not saying an M-audio unit is better per se. I'm saying that for a lot of people (including me) I think it's a better *deal*. I didn't like the M-box for reasons I've stated and I'd never buy one. I like the Digi 001's I've seen and heard but they're not currently supported. I've heard on boards and elsewhere that the 002's can be a bit buggy. Regardless I think that the prices are too high for the 002/r and the M-box for what you get. So what I'm really talking about is value for money as well as quality.

You can certainly use the M-audio stuff for a great many things other than protools (which as you stated the mbox can as well) and a pci card almost always has better latency than anything on the usb bus (not that any of the manufacturers to my knowledge are even taking advantage of usb 2.0 and that firewire interfaces seem to work better - but I'm getting off track). Your hardware or drivers have to be really screwed up to have worse latency over pci than usb.

Part of what might make our attitudes different is what we use our equipment for. I use MIDI a fair amount so that's more important to me than what might be important for you.

You know I would start off on protools and save the time and effort - if I could afford it or justify what it is I can afford (Feel free to contact me if you're dying to sell your digi 002r or hd for 350-400 ). Now this I can afford and when we have more answers here in the DUC and elsewhere I'll shell out for it.

It would be nice if you could talk more in depth about what you like about your M-box or other digi compared to specific models of M-audio stuff and I think will help a lot of people make up their minds since they'll be better educated on it. Thanks for writing.

[mpark9000]

I'm not saying an M-audio unit is better per se. I'm saying that for a lot of people (including me) I think it's a better *deal*.

It's basically the same deal. $100 for the lowest M-Audio PCI card and $300 for the ProTools M-Powered software. $400 for an M-Powered system or $450 for an MBox (approx numbers). The MBox sounds better than any of the M-Audio gear I have used, so there is an factor that isn't listed on the feature list. I doubt that Avid would dis one of their products for another. Also, the PCI card doesn't have mic preamps or hardware monitoring. For a mere $50 more you get a lot more bang for the buck.

I didn't like the M-box for reasons I've stated and I'd never buy one. I like the Digi 001's I've seen and heard but they're not currently supported. I've heard on boards and elsewhere that the 002's can be a bit buggy. Regardless I think that the prices are too high for the 002/r and the M-box for what you get. So what I'm really talking about is value for money as well as quality.

One word: laptop. PCI cards are out for me.

Part of what might make our attitudes different is what we use our equipment for. I use MIDI a fair amount so that's more important to me than what might be important for you.

The built in M-Audio MIDI function to me is a small consideration. Software instruments and USB controllers are replacing MIDI gear these days.

You know I would start off on protools and save the time and effort - if I could afford it or justify what it is I can afford (Feel free to contact me if you're dying to sell your digi 002r or hd for 350-400 ). Now this I can afford and when we have more answers here in the DUC and elsewhere I'll shell out for it.

Uh oh... If you're comparing the 002R to, I guess the 1814, the actual cost would be $500 for the 1814 + $300 for the software = $800, NOT $350-$400. This is for a flimsy built unit without balanced I/O. 002R = $1300 for a better sounding unit with professional balanced I/O, software, better sound. Depends if you main concern is saving money or getting the best sound within your means.

It would be nice if you could talk more in depth about what you like about your M-box or other digi compared to specific models of M-audio stuff and I think will help a lot of people make up their minds since they'll be better educated on it. Thanks for writing.

Balanced I/O. Better preamps. Better converters. Better build quality (although I don't own an 002). Software included, why would I use any other platform? ASIO for anything else I want to run ie: Reason, Wavelab, etc. Priced only slightly higher than comparible gear when you factor the price of a software package. ProTools is the most compatible platform an the planet, I can take my session to almost any pro studio and be up and running.

That said, I actually have an 1814 on order. I can afford to fool around with it, so I'll have a better comparison shortly. Comparing the MBox to the 1814 is a bit different than comparing it to the basic M-Audio PCI card.

[destroy_all_monsters]

It's basically the same deal. $100 for the lowest M-Audio PCI card and $300 for the ProTools M-Powered software. $400 for an M-Powered system or $450 for an MBox (approx numbers). The MBox sounds better than any of the M-Audio gear I have used, so there is an factor that isn't listed on the feature list. I doubt that Avid would dis one of their products for another. Also, the PCI card doesn't have mic preamps or hardware monitoring. For a mere $50 more you get a lot more bang for the buck.

I can't say I was particularly impressed by the pre's on the Mbox. Certainly how one hears things is a bit individual making any argument on that point moot. Could you tell me what it is you like about the sound of the Mbox better? Highs, mids, bass or? Possibly it could have something to do with the rest of your setups either way unless you're A/B -ing it on the same gear. You're right that the 2496 doesn't have hardware monitoring - but the 192 does (which is what I have). I don't agree with your side of the bang for the buck argument but I have to agree that each of these pieces of hardware have their positives and negatives - or limitations if you will.

One word: laptop. PCI cards are out for me.

That explains a lot right there. USB is a hell of a lot more ubiquitous on PC laptops than FW so that makes sense.

The built in M-Audio MIDI function to me is a small consideration. Software instruments and USB controllers are replacing MIDI gear these days.

That also helps explain your point of view. Midi for me at this point is crucial.

Uh oh... If you're comparing the 002R to, I guess the 1814, the actual cost would be $500 for the 1814 + $300 for the software = $800, NOT $350-$400. This is for a flimsy built unit without balanced I/O. 002R = $1300 for a better sounding unit with professional balanced I/O, software, better sound. Depends if you main concern is saving money or getting the best sound within your means.

This may seem pedantic but it's a bit less than $500 for the 1814. I think you mixed up my point about what I was comparing. I'm not comparing the 1814 to the Mbox, but to the 002/r. The specs I've read on the 1814 indicate balanced I/O. We all know how specs can differ in the real world so that's something I'm waiting to see what others have to say about who have the gear first. I don't know what software you speak of that the 002/r has that PTMP doesn't though. Saving money is part of the equation, but this *is* what I consider to be the best sound within my means. I'm not at all comparing your means to mine however.

It would be nice if you could talk more in depth about what you like about your M-box or other digi compared to specific models of M-audio stuff and I think will help a lot of people make up their minds since they'll be better educated on it. Thanks for writing.

Balanced I/O. Better preamps. Better converters. Better build quality (although I don't own an 002). Software included, why would I use any other platform? ASIO for anything else I want to run ie: Reason, Wavelab, etc. Priced only slightly higher than comparible gear when you factor the price of a software package. ProTools is the most compatible platform an the planet, I can take my session to almost any pro studio and be up and running.

From what I've read there is balanced I/O on the 1814. I'm not qualified to discuss the qualities of the preamps or converters involved because I don't know the guts and chipsets involved nor have I exhaustively A/B'ed the various systems. It's my hope that someone on the DUC will however. I'm confused about why you bring up ASIO when all the M-audio products have it as well - is there a discussion of ASIO implementations elsewhere? Eh, I don't think we're arguing the usefulness of PT - just the hardware and software differences between the two as well as the options involved.

That said, I actually have an 1814 on order. I can afford to fool around with it, so I'll have a better comparison shortly. Comparing the MBox to the 1814 is a bit different than comparing it to the basic M-Audio PCI card.

Yeah I read that in another thread and I'm going to be interested in what conclusions you come up with once you've gotten it along with PTMP. To be sure I'm not comparing the Mbox to the 1814, just the various options and abilities involved. I think a fairer comparison is the 192 to the Mbox since there the price is the same.