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  #11  
Old 09-20-2014, 03:44 PM
VRW VRW is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR92 View Post
When comparing DAWs i only compare workflows. Does Protools really sound better?
Yes, it does. Itīs just marginal differences but Iīve been doing this for more than 20 years
and have noticed it several times (and not only me but also guys who had a lot of charts
success etc.) that if you play the exact same audio file back on a plain track with no plug ins,
no busses activated, nothing between, just straight to the master out, with the same audio
interface, the same settings of the audio interface, listening via the same monitors and so on...
every DAW has itīs own sound "character" and Pro Tools has the most balanced, most open, widest
sound "character". As said before, the differences are marginal and you can use every DAW to
achieve professional results, to make great music, to make a no.1 if this is the goal ;-) but there
are differences actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR92 View Post
I just checked. I can upgrade to 8GB for 200$
Hey, I guess you could get 16GB for $200.- at OWC
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../1600DDR3S16P/
I have got 16GB for mine for even $150.- from Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12...O-DIMM+204+Pin

...and it has been working perfectly fine for 2 years. Thatīs the right stuff btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR92 View Post
So basically i need to upgrade my entire macbook… what about the CPU? If that's also a problem I'll definitely buy the biggest macbook pro.
The thing is I have the budget for any macbook and i want a powerful long lasting rig. But the PCs components are a lot cheaper, so I get more bang for the buck.

So it's upgrading my 13 inch macbook vs. buying a "big" macbook vs. PC notebook with maybe other DAW and the best components
To be honest the CPU could become a problem too as Pro Tools 11 does not like
i5 Dual Core processors very much, actually it would need an i7 Quad Core to
run perfectly fine, but it could work with this Macbook anyway. I had it running
on this MBP quite well.

But-if you say, you could afford the "big stuff" too, I would definitely go for it.
If you can afford it, just get a fully expanded Macbook Pro and you should be fine.
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/ma.../A&step=config

The only downside of those new MacBooks Pro is that if you will want to use
Pro Tools, you unfortunately will have to use an external drive anyway.
Itīs just because those donīt have an optical drive anymore which could be
replaced with a 2nd internal drive.
So you would have to use at least one external drive for the use with Pro Tools.
If your sessions would have more than 30 tracks, you even would have to
use a 2nd one (30 tracks from 1 audio drive is the official limit by Avid).

As to the computer if you select the 2,8GHz processor and the 512GB or 1TB
Flash drive for the OS drive you definitely should have enough power actually.

As to which DAW to use, let me say that Pro Tools is just the best quality-wise
and regarding itīs workflow but it has itīs particular requirements.
Logic Pro X is the most convenient DAW in a way as it does work even without
separate drives, doesīt need an iLok, comes with tons of very useable loops,
sounds and VIs and has a lot of cool features (for example the built in drummer app
is incredible)
but it is a bit more complicated than Pro Tools as to itīs workflow and as mentioned
before PT has the bit "rounder" sound character in a way.
But you definitely can do serious, professional stuff with Logic too.

Finally IMO the latest, top equipped Macbook Pro would be great for the use
with both DAWs. If you would go for Logic, you should take the 1TB Flash drive
because you will have to store everything on this drive then.
If you would go for Pro Tools, the 512GB would be right enough actually.

I personally would not go for Cubase/PC just from my personal experience but
thatīs my personal opinion only of course.

All the best,


VRW




MacMini i7Quad, 16GB Ram, MBP Mid 2012 2,5GHz i5, 16GB Ram, MacOS 10.9.5, Apogee Quartet+Duet 2, Genelec Active, Yamaha NS10,
Pro Tools 11.2.1, Logic 10.0.7, Waves, MCDSP, Duende Native, Softube, HOFA, IK Multimedia, NI etc.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2014, 02:04 AM
VRW VRW is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

There are a few things left I forgot to mention yesterday.

You did not say anything about the audio interface you use?
Itīs just because also some of the older interfaces (even Avidīs
own MBoxes as well as the Digi002/003s) are known to cause
CPU overloads with Pro Tools 11.

So if you had been using one of the older ones this additionally
would have caused the permanent CPU spikes.

Or didnīt you use any audio interface at all but only the internal audio
engine of the Macbook? This may work with small sessions with less plugins
and only max. 1-2 VIīs but if you have more complex sessions the
internal audio engine of the MBP would not be powerful enough actually.

So, really no harm meant, but your Macbook in this overall configuration
has never had any fair chance .

Anyway.
As mentioned in the last postings, this particular MBP is not the best
one to run PT11 although it is a very cool and nice machine in general.
I have the same and I love it. As said before it runs Logic Pro X perfectly
fine here also without an audio interface, without any iLok or Dongle and
all data directly from 1 512GB SSD drive.
For serious mixing however I do use you an Apogee Duet or Quartet as
even Logic works and sounds better with those than with the internal engine
only.

As mentioned before Pro Tools has particular requirements to work properly,
on the other hand it is the best, most logical (yeah, even more than Logic )
DAW with the best workflow actually.

So itīs to make a choice, if PT will be worth it for you to fulfill all needed
requirements or to go a more convenient route without Pro Tools.

If you will stay with PT, you should get the latest, maxed out Macbook Pro
with at least the 256GB Flash drive, at least 1 or 2 external drives (depending
on the amount of tracks in your sessions) preferably SSD drives with Thunderbolt
connection, at least HDDs with 7200rpm and Thunderbolt or USB 3 connection
and finally a recent, fast high quality audio interface. This for sure will work out then.

If you would go for Logic e.g. you could even try to stay with your Macbook, put in
16GB Ram, put in 1 large SSD drive (if you can afford it I would strongly recommend
the Samsung 850 Pro 512GB/1TB which is an incredibly cool drive and has a long
lifetime either) and finally, for the serious mixing stuff, a good quality audio interface again.

I saw today that you are located in Germany actually, so I will post you the right links for
the most affordable Ram and the Samsung 850 again.

The Ram
http://www.amazon.de/Crucial-memory-...O-DIMM+204+Pin
or
http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Channel...productDetails

The Samsung 850 Pro
http://www.amazon.de/Samsung-Basic-M...+850+pro+512gb

As to the audio interface let me recommend 3 brands which are
Apogee...the best sound quality in every price range
Universal Audio (Apollo)...the most stable, reliable units
RME...the most versatile units

There for sure you will find what you need:
http://www.thomann.de/de/audiointerfaces1.html

Ah, and I forgot, you should rather use Mac OS Mavericks for PT11 as well as for Logic,
itīs just working better than with Mac 10.8.5 actually.
I can tell as I run the same Macbook Pro with the latest Update of Mavericks and
Logic Pro X as well as a Mac Mini i7 Quad with Mavericks and both, PT11+Logic.

Thatīs it finally.

Wishing you the very best of success,


VRW




MacMini i7Quad, 16GB Ram, MBP Mid 2012 2,5GHz i5, 16GB Ram, MacOS 10.9.5, Apogee Quartet+Duet 2, Genelec Active, Yamaha NS10,
Pro Tools 11.2.1, Logic 10.0.7, Waves, MCDSP, Duende Native, Softube, HOFA, IK Multimedia, NI etc.
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  #13  
Old 09-21-2014, 05:01 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 17,064
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR92 View Post
Hey guys,

my mixing session (Protools 11) have grown a lot since i've started out. Nowadays my session take up 300% CPU usage :-D well that's what activity monitor tells me. So I need to update my mac. The questions i have are

1. Can I update my CPU or only the RAM?
2- How much CPU and RAM do I really need for mixing (just audio and maybe two "XPAND" VIs)
3. When buying a new mac, is a laptop (the "biggest" macbook pro) enough? They have "only" quadcore CPUs, the Macpro has a 6 core, but i've heard of PCs with 16-core processors? So is windows better?? Or do I need a SSD? Or should I use an external harddrive (that would suck!)?


My Rig: 13 inch Macbook Pro, Mid 2012, 2.5GHz Intel Core i5, 2x2GB RAM, 500GB SATA Drive (have empty), OS X 10.8.5, being cleaned regularly with "detox my mac" "disk utility" "empty thrash securly" etc.

let me know if you need further information. thanks for your help!!!
Beyond what everyone else has written here, and it's all good info, you're going to need to divorce yourself from all those 'helper' programs you're running except for OSX Disk Utility. Some of those others have been known to delete files they weren't supposed to and they do nothing to 'enhance' your system or make it run better.
__________________
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See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2014, 05:37 AM
CR92 CR92 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Hey,

just wanted to give an update. I'm now using the 15" 2,8Ghz Macbook Pro without an external drive. Everything works fine now! I'm sure an ex. drive will even increase the performance but for now I'm okay with what I have. If somebody is interested: I opened 50 Tracks with 50 Air Reverbs each and Protools still worked (didn't press play though^^) after adding another 3 of those channels PT eventually shut down.

So anyway thanks for your advice, I'm looking forward to working on the next project without cpu-crashes and [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]. Btw, if anyone would like to hear my work, check out "Elive" on facebook. Enjoy! https://www.facebook.com/eliveband?fref=ts
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2014, 10:01 AM
Bill Denton Bill Denton is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 2,644
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRW View Post
Yes, it does. Itīs just marginal differences but Iīve been doing this for more than 20 years
and have noticed it several times (and not only me but also guys who had a lot of charts
success etc.) that if you play the exact same audio file back on a plain track with no plug ins,
no busses activated, nothing between, just straight to the master out, with the same audio
interface, the same settings of the audio interface, listening via the same monitors and so on...
every DAW has itīs own sound "character" and Pro Tools has the most balanced, most open, widest
sound "character". As said before, the differences are marginal and you can use every DAW to
achieve professional results, to make great music, to make a no.1 if this is the goal ;-) but there
are differences actually.



Hey, I guess you could get 16GB for $200.- at OWC
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../1600DDR3S16P/
I have got 16GB for mine for even $150.- from Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC3-12...O-DIMM+204+Pin

...and it has been working perfectly fine for 2 years. Thatīs the right stuff btw.



To be honest the CPU could become a problem too as Pro Tools 11 does not like
i5 Dual Core processors very much, actually it would need an i7 Quad Core to
run perfectly fine, but it could work with this Macbook anyway. I had it running
on this MBP quite well.

But-if you say, you could afford the "big stuff" too, I would definitely go for it.
If you can afford it, just get a fully expanded Macbook Pro and you should be fine.
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/ma.../A&step=config

The only downside of those new MacBooks Pro is that if you will want to use
Pro Tools, you unfortunately will have to use an external drive anyway.
Itīs just because those donīt have an optical drive anymore which could be
replaced with a 2nd internal drive.
So you would have to use at least one external drive for the use with Pro Tools.
If your sessions would have more than 30 tracks, you even would have to
use a 2nd one (30 tracks from 1 audio drive is the official limit by Avid).

As to the computer if you select the 2,8GHz processor and the 512GB or 1TB
Flash drive for the OS drive you definitely should have enough power actually.

As to which DAW to use, let me say that Pro Tools is just the best quality-wise
and regarding itīs workflow but it has itīs particular requirements.
Logic Pro X is the most convenient DAW in a way as it does work even without
separate drives, doesīt need an iLok, comes with tons of very useable loops,
sounds and VIs and has a lot of cool features (for example the built in drummer app
is incredible)
but it is a bit more complicated than Pro Tools as to itīs workflow and as mentioned
before PT has the bit "rounder" sound character in a way.
But you definitely can do serious, professional stuff with Logic too.

Finally IMO the latest, top equipped Macbook Pro would be great for the use
with both DAWs. If you would go for Logic, you should take the 1TB Flash drive
because you will have to store everything on this drive then.
If you would go for Pro Tools, the 512GB would be right enough actually.

I personally would not go for Cubase/PC just from my personal experience but
thatīs my personal opinion only of course.

All the best,


VRW




MacMini i7Quad, 16GB Ram, MBP Mid 2012 2,5GHz i5, 16GB Ram, MacOS 10.9.5, Apogee Quartet+Duet 2, Genelec Active, Yamaha NS10,
Pro Tools 11.2.1, Logic 10.0.7, Waves, MCDSP, Duende Native, Softube, HOFA, IK Multimedia, NI etc.
If your sessions would have more than 30 tracks, you even would have to
use a 2nd one (30 tracks from 1 audio drive is the official limit by Avid).


I don't know where you came up with that one, but it is totally not correct now.

People routinely use a single drive with 100+ tracks with no problems whatsoever.

The 30 track limit may have once been true, but the limit no longer exists...
__________________
X
Note that all opinions, observations, whatever, in this post are mine, unless I'm being mean or am wrong, in which case it's somebody else's fault. I do not work for Avid (their loss)...my only relationship with Avid is that of a customer (when I'm not too poor to buy stuff, like now)...and that hot administrative assistant...that's more of a "thing" than a "relationship" (that should keep them guessing for a while...)

Just rockin'...what more is there?

Bill in Pittsburgh
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  #16  
Old 10-10-2014, 10:18 AM
VRW VRW is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Denton View Post
If your sessions would have more than 30 tracks, you even would have to
use a 2nd one (30 tracks from 1 audio drive is the official limit by Avid).


I don't know where you came up with that one, but it is totally not correct now.

People routinely use a single drive with 100+ tracks with no problems whatsoever.

The 30 track limit may have once been true, but the limit no longer exists...
Well, itīs been said once by Avid (it even was official requirement by Avid not to use 1 drive for more than about 30),
itīs been written very often here at the DUC by pros and finally Iīve personally made a quite similar experience through
the years with my 3 external FW800 drives (from PT9-11) but itīs good to know that this seems not to be relevant anymore.
Iīm still experiencing such kind of behavior with my external 7200rpm FW drives but I have no problem with it if you say itīs
nonsense. If you say so, well, then it may be that way.
Cheers.
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2014, 10:22 AM
VRW VRW is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,318
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR92 View Post
Hey,

just wanted to give an update. I'm now using the 15" 2,8Ghz Macbook Pro without an external drive. Everything works fine now! I'm sure an ex. drive will even increase the performance but for now I'm okay with what I have. If somebody is interested: I opened 50 Tracks with 50 Air Reverbs each and Protools still worked (didn't press play though^^) after adding another 3 of those channels PT eventually shut down.

So anyway thanks for your advice, I'm looking forward to working on the next project without cpu-crashes and [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]. Btw, if anyone would like to hear my work, check out "Elive" on facebook. Enjoy! https://www.facebook.com/eliveband?fref=ts
Hey, thatīs great!
So you have got a new MBP finally, havenīt you?
Thatīs cool .
You should have no problems and lots of fun with this machine using PT11 actually.
All the best to you!
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2014, 01:00 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 17,064
Default Re: How much CPU and RAM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VRW View Post
Well, itīs been said once by Avid (it even was official requirement by Avid not to use 1 drive for more than about 30),
itīs been written very often here at the DUC by pros and finally Iīve personally made a quite similar experience through
the years with my 3 external FW800 drives (from PT9-11) but itīs good to know that this seems not to be relevant anymore.
Iīm still experiencing such kind of behavior with my external 7200rpm FW drives but I have no problem with it if you say itīs
nonsense. If you say so, well, then it may be that way.
Cheers.
It may not be relevant for some but running separate drives for samples, recording and system have kept me so far from having the problems a lot of people are having with PT 11. The times I do have problems have NOT been due to PT but due to either pilot error or problems with certain third party plugins.
__________________
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See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
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