Recognise the sound of this glitch? (003 recording issue)

[SqueakyFish]

I'm recording using the following setup:
OS: Windows 7
Software: Pro Tools 10
Interface: 003 Factory surface

I'm experiencing an issue when I record - there's a glitchy sound that comes and goes every minute or so. It sounds just like this: http://soundcloud.com/squeakyfish/003-glitches

The short term fix is to go to Setup/Playback Engine and select and unselect "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record." But this only buys me a few extra minutes before the issue pops up again

Here's the trouble shooting I've done so far. The glitchy sound remained with all of the following:
- Tried other mics, both phantom powered and non powered mics
- Tried other mic and line inputs
- Running a project off the C drive (normally I record and playback from an external drive)
- Played the recorded audio files through a media player
- Uninstalled/reinstalled Pro Tools 10
- Tried installing Pro Tools 7. It's not compatible with Windows 7

So after this, I tried plugging in my Mbox mini 3 and...recorded for 5 minutes perfectly - so it seems like the 003 is the issue.

But here's where things get weird...and awesome? I plug the 003 and decide to do a test recording...and it works just fine. The test involved simultaneously recording 4 mics (different models, 3/4 of which were phantom powered) and an electric bass. In a 5 minute recording there's only one minor instance of a popping noise. Just to be sure though, I reboot, create a new session and see if I can't replicate the same success. The results were mixed. I recorded for 7 minutes. Most of the time it sounded fine, but at the start and at the 2 minute mark there's about 30 seconds of glitchy sound. The rest of the recording is perfect. So now it seems I can record for longer, but the effect comes again goes *while* recording.

So I then tried more fixes - all of which had no perceptible effect:
- Downloaded/installed latest driver packs for 003 and Pro Tools 10
- Reset the firmware on the firmware on the 003

Note with the firmware, the version both before and after the rest were as follows:
Boot 56A8
b7.3.0.116

Syustem 4FA8
v8.0.0.314

Fader
v8.0.0.314

Hardware
00.32

STILL no change. But then I uninstall Pro Tools (I was running 10.3.2) and installed the latest version - 10.3.3. Now the glitches are more infrequent, but in my last two test recordings now there were soft popping and scratching noises throughout. Like so: http://www.squeakyfish.com.au/shared...xample%202.mp3

PHEW. Any ideas?

[dford]

Originally Posted by SqueakyFish

I'm recording using the following setup:
OS: Windows 7
Software: Pro Tools 10
Interface: 003 Factory surface

I'm experiencing an issue when I record - there's a glitchy sound that comes and goes every minute or so. It sounds just like this: http://soundcloud.com/squeakyfish/003-glitches

The short term fix is to go to Setup/Playback Engine and select and unselect "Ignore Errors During Playback/Record." But this only buys me a few extra minutes before the issue pops up again

Here's the trouble shooting I've done so far. The glitchy sound remained with all of the following:
- Tried other mics, both phantom powered and non powered mics
- Tried other mic and line inputs
- Running a project off the C drive (normally I record and playback from an external drive)
- Played the recorded audio files through a media player
- Uninstalled/reinstalled Pro Tools 10
- Tried installing Pro Tools 7. It's not compatible with Windows 7

So after this, I tried plugging in my Mbox mini 3 and...recorded for 5 minutes perfectly - so it seems like the 003 is the issue.

But here's where things get weird...and awesome? I plug the 003 and decide to do a test recording...and it works just fine. The test involved simultaneously recording 4 mics (different models, 3/4 of which were phantom powered) and an electric bass. In a 5 minute recording there's only one minor instance of a popping noise. Just to be sure though, I reboot, create a new session and see if I can't replicate the same success. The results were mixed. I recorded for 7 minutes. Most of the time it sounded fine, but at the start and at the 2 minute mark there's about 30 seconds of glitchy sound. The rest of the recording is perfect. So now it seems I can record for longer, but the effect comes again goes *while* recording.

So I then tried more fixes - all of which had no perceptible effect:
- Downloaded/installed latest driver packs for 003 and Pro Tools 10
- Reset the firmware on the firmware on the 003

Note with the firmware, the version both before and after the rest were as follows:
Boot 56A8
b7.3.0.116

Syustem 4FA8
v8.0.0.314

Fader
v8.0.0.314

Hardware
00.32

STILL no change. But then I uninstall Pro Tools (I was running 10.3.2) and installed the latest version - 10.3.3. Now the glitches are more infrequent, but in my last two test recordings now there were soft popping and scratching noises throughout.

PHEW. Any ideas?

Sounds like RF noise to me. Are you using a radio mic or have a cellphone nearby?

Or

It also sounds like a clocking or referencing issue.

I'm not familiar with ProTools on Windows though. You mention a "popping sound". I don't hear one, just sustained noise.


Dev

[albee1952]

too many unanswered details. Did this setup ever work well? What are the session settings(sample rate/bit depth)? Do you have the latest 003 driver(the controller uses a different driver than the rack version)? Post a Sandra report as described in this link:
Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!

[SqueakyFish]

I've added an example of what it sounds like now: http://www.squeakyfish.com.au/shared...xample%202.mp3

The issue persists even with mobiles off and I'm not using radio mics in this setup. Session is 48kHz/24bit. As mentioned, I installedthe latest 003 driver pack - but I've done it again, just to be 100% sure since I've reinstalled Pro Tools 10.3.3.

As for whether this setup ever worked, most of my work is primarily as an editor, so I only rarely needed to record in which case the occasional issue was tolerable. But now I've got a recording job coming up so I need to get this fixed.

Here my Sandra report below. Hope this helps - if you need anything else just ask. I appreciate the assistance. ^^

SiSoftware Sandra

ID
Host Name : Kyle-PC
Workgroup : WORKGROUP

Computer
Model : GigaByte EP45-DS3R
Chassis : GigaByte Desktop
Mainboard : GigaByte EP45-DS3R
BIOS : Award (OEM) F10 09/22/2008
Total Memory : 8GB DIMM DDR2

Processors
Processor : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz (4C 2.33GHz, 2x 2MB L2)
Socket/Slot : FC LGA (Socket T)

Chipset
Memory Controller : Gigabyte P45/P43/G45/G43 DRAM Controller 4x 333MHz (1.33GHz), 2x 4GB DIMM DDR2 800MHz 128-bit

Memory Module(s)
Memory Module : OCZ OCZ2T800C42G 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18 3-24-6-3)
Memory Module : Patriot Memory PSD22G8002 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-15 3-23-6-3)
Memory Module : OCZ OCZ2T800C42G 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-18 3-24-6-3)
Memory Module : Patriot Memory PSD22G8002 2GB DIMM DDR2 PC2-6400U DDR2-800 (5-5-5-15 3-23-6-3)

Video System
Monitor/Panel : MITAC LCD MONITOR
(1600x1200, 19.1")
Monitor/Panel : Samsung SyncMaster
(1280x1024, 19.1")
Monitor/Panel : Lenovo L194 Wide
(1600x1200, 19.1")
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.5GHz, 512MB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.5GHz, 1GB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)
Video Adapter : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (14CU 112SP SM4.0 1.5GHz, 1GB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit, PCIe 2.00 x16)

Graphics Processor
OpenCL GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 14C 1.5GHz, 512MB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)
OpenCL GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 14C 1.5GHz, 1GB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)
Compute Shader Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 1.5GHz, 512MB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)
Compute Shader Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 1.5GHz, 1GB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)
CUDA GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 14C 1.5GHz, 512MB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)
CUDA GP Processor : NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT (112SP 14C 1.5GHz, 1GB DDR3 1.8GHz 256-bit)

Storage Devices
WDC WD10EZRX-00A8LB0 (1TB, SATA600, 3.5") : 932GB (C:)
WDC WD15EADS-11R6B1 (1.5TB, FireWire/1394/SATA150, 3.5", 32MB Cache) : 1TB (H:)
PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-216 (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 64kB Cache) : N/A (D:)
WD Virtual CD 1112 (700.4MB, FireWire/1394) : 668MB (E:)

Logical Storage Devices
System Reserved : 100MB (NTFS)
Omnibot (H:) : 1TB (NTFS) @ WDC WD15EADS-11R6B1 (1.5TB, FireWire/1394/SATA150, 3.5", 32MB Cache)
Hard Disk (C:) : 931GB (NTFS) @ WDC WD10EZRX-00A8LB0 (1TB, SATA600, 3.5")
Optical Drive (D:) : N/A @ PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-216 (SATA150, DVD+-RW, CD-RW, 64kB Cache)
WD SmartWare (E:) : 615MB (UDF) @ WD Virtual CD 1112 (700.4MB, FireWire/1394)

Peripherals
LPC Hub Controller 1 : Gigabyte LPC Interface Controller
LPC Legacy Controller 1 : ITE IT8718F
Audio Device : Gigabyte HD Audio Controller
Serial Port(s) : 1
Parallel Port(s) : 1
Disk Controller : Gigabyte ICH8R (ICH8) SATA RAID Controller
Disk Controller : Gigabyte JMB368 IDE Controller
USB Controller 1 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #4
USB Controller 2 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #5
USB Controller 3 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #6
USB Controller 4 : Gigabyte USB EHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 5 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #1
USB Controller 6 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #2
USB Controller 7 : Gigabyte USB UHCI Controller #3
USB Controller 8 : Gigabyte USB EHCI Controller #1
FireWire/1394 Controller 1 : VIA VT6315 Series Firewire Controller
FireWire/1394 Controller 2 : Gigabyte TSB43AB23 1394a-2000 OHCI PHY/link-layer Controller
SMBus/i2c Controller 1 : Intel ICH SMBus

Printers and Faxes
Printer : Microsoft XPS Document Writer (600x600, Colour)
Fax : Microsoft Shared Fax Driver (200x200)

Network Services
Network Adapter : Realtek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) Family PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC (NDIS 6.20) (Ethernet)
Network Adapter : Realtek RTL8168C(P)/8111C(P) Family PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC (NDIS 6.20) #2 (Ethernet)
Wireless Adapter : D-Link DWA-547 RangeBooster N650 Desktop Adapter (802.11n (HT), AES-CCMP, 130Mbps)

Operating System
Windows System : Microsoft Windows 7 Home 6.01.7601 (Service Pack 1)
Platform Compliance : x64

[dford]

Originally Posted by SqueakyFish

I've added an example of what it sounds like now: http://www.squeakyfish.com.au/shared...xample%202.mp3

The issue persists even with mobiles off and I'm not using radio mics in this setup. Session is 48kHz/24bit. As mentioned, I installedthe latest 003 driver pack - but I've done it again, just to be 100% sure since I've reinstalled Pro Tools 10.3.3.

As for whether this setup ever worked, most of my work is primarily as an editor, so I only rarely needed to record in which case the occasional issue was tolerable. But now I've got a recording job coming up so I need to get this fixed.

Here my Sandra report below. Hope this helps - if you need anything else just ask. I appreciate the assistance. ^^

Have you tried increasing your H/W buffer size? I realize its not ideal for recording due to latency but it might reduce or resolve the fault, and point you in the direction of a resolution. That sound it much different than the first uploaded one...

Also are you on internal reference, or are you externally referencing your rig?


Dev

[SqueakyFish]

I'm using an internal clock. My understanding is that the 003s clock should be sufficient and I'd only need an external clock if I was integrating multiple systems/devices. Is that right?

Here's my current settings under the Playback Engine:
H/W buffer size: 64 samples
Host processors: 3 processors
CPU Usage limit: 80%
Host engine: Have *not* selected ignore errors during playback/record
Delay compensation engine: Short

I find the errors generally persist even if I change it. As mentioned though, the error comes and goes - so it's hard to tell exactly what effect the changes have. For example, I just turned off delay compensation and changed it to a H/W buffer of 1024 bytes and then 256 bytes - with both of those I encountered some glitching/crackling at some point in the recording.

However, the issue does temporarily stop if I stop recording, adjust the Playback Engine settings and record again.

[SqueakyFish]

Just tried recording with my 003 through Reaper and found it comes up with the *exact* same recording issues. Which narrows it down to either the 003 hardware itself (hopefully not!) or something to do with my operating system. Before I take it down for repairs, is there anything else I can try?

[albee1952]

Looking over the Sandra report shows several things that worry me:
1-mis-matched RAM(especially with different timings)
2-firewire drives(Windows 7 does not support firewire drives for Pro Tools)
3-VIA firewire controllers are hit and miss. An approved TI card might help.
4-Wifi should be disabled until you figure out the issue(which MIGHT be the wifi)

[SqueakyFish]

Ha, what? It doesn't support firewire drives? That's...a really odd choice.

BUT I just found a solution - and you already mentioned a couple of them. Firstly, I swapped the firewire cable and the firewire port I was using for connecting the 003. This seemed to reduce the amount of glitches I experienced, but did not resolve it completely.

What *did* fix things though was going back through the optimization section in the Pro Tools installation document. (Since when I first installed I was going by the install guide written for Pro Tools 7. I went through all of the recommended and optional requirements that I could. I also disabled the network card, which is something that the Pro Tools 7 install document had as an optional step, but is no longer a step in the Pro Tools 10 install document.

The result is that I was able to do two 5 minute recording tests with 4 mics and one DI instrument and got a pristine, error free recording!

Now not all of those steps may have been necessary, but it works! And with a band coming in tomorrow I'm going to leave the setup as is for the time being.

Thanks to everyone for helping me resolve this. Took a bit of time but it was definitely worth it.

Follow up: Completed that 4 hour recording session yesterday simultaneously recording with 4 powered mics and 3 DI instruments - and not a single problem. <3

[Sounds Expensive]

I have similar issues on my 002r. It starts with the same sound that was heard on the audio clip you linked to, then the input level gradually lowers and sometimes goes to zero. Sometimes pushing the 48v in and out several times fixes it or sending a burst of signal into the input.

The issues didn't resolve itself even through Pro tools 8, 9 and 10, various 002r drivers, different Mac computers, OS upgrades and different firewire cables and connections. And a while ago when I first experienced the issues, I sent it back to Black Lion Audio thinking it may have been an issue with the Signature Series Mod. When they tested the unit everything checked out fine and they sent it back.

Up until today inputs 1 and 3 worked fine, input 2 had extremely low input (roughly -60 dBFS when tapping a 57) even with the gain set full; and input 4 was intermittent with the same problem outlined above, regardless of the mic or input type and setting.

However, today I thought I'd try something different. I patched a mono output to input 2, using 1/4" TRS to XLR and then 1/4" TRS to TRS and sent a 2-track mix through at full volume including cranking up the preamp gain. I then went back to plugging in a 57 and tapping on it, all is normal. I have no idea what is happening electronically, but there it is.

Curious to know if anyone else has had this issue with the preamps on the 002 or 003, or if they have any insight on the above result.

Thanks!