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  #561  
Old 02-25-2015, 10:11 PM
WKG WKG is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by Bruce Paine View Post
Pro Tools HD software owners that did the crossgrade from the Complete Production Toolkit will have the same options as any other Pro Tools HD 9 or higher software owner; no distinction between whether you own HD hardware or not.
That's what I would have thought but Marianna's terminology specified HD hardware, trying a little too hard not to read between the lines here.

Thanks for clarifying.
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  #562  
Old 02-25-2015, 10:41 PM
moonmusic moonmusic is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by marianna View Post
After scanning the threads up to page 52, the sticky wickets or what I would call " "the things that stick in your craw" seems to be 3 things.

1. What happens when a customer doesn't purchase an upgrade/support plan by the deadline
2. What happens when the upgrade/support plan lapses
3. HD subscription pricing that isn't available yet

If you own a Pro Tools license, you have 2 options:

1. Buy an Upgrade and Support Plan
2. Keep your perpetual license, and subscribe when you want to use new features

Marianna
Hello Marianna....Thanks for getting back on this.....#2 was my personal issue and I'm not doing 1 or 2 as a solution so I guess this will be the end of the road for me....Thanks for giving us the heads up to prepare for whatever we decide to do....moon
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  #563  
Old 02-26-2015, 01:35 AM
Righty27 Righty27 is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by marianna View Post
Sorry folks for the tardiness in coming back…. FWIW, last week I had a birthday (don’t ask my age – as I’m not talking :) ) and for once took that day and the Monday prior off. Been playing email catch up since.

After scanning the threads up to page 52, the sticky wickets or what I would call " "the things that stick in your craw" seems to be 3 things.

1. What happens when a customer doesn't purchase an upgrade/support plan by the deadline
2. What happens when the upgrade/support plan lapses
3. HD subscription pricing that isn't available yet

Let me reiterate some things and also explain a few…..Our hope is that we have given you the information and the choices you need to make the right decisions for you and your business.

All new Pro Tools and MC licenses come with a year of upgrades and support. That means not only do you get access to support either on the phone or thru the web but you are entitled to receive every software upgrade that’s released throughout the year. When you get close to the renewal timeframe, you simply renew to get the upgrades and support for the next year. If you don’t renew….. and let your plan expire, that’s fine – your PT or MC license will continue to run but the license will be frozen at the last version you upgraded too.

We also introduced subscription for MC and will soon for Pro Tools. The Subscription model allows you to pay a marginal amount each month to effectively “rent” the products. Upgrades and support are also included, so subscribers can stay current as long as they continue to renew each month or year.

Gone are the days when you made one time purchases to upgrade an MC or Pro Tools license to the latest version. Customers use to have to navigate a slew of upgrade options and pricing from from what they were upgrading from and then to ( one, two three versions back etc.) I can tell you as Stef alluded, mistakes happen, and were made in droves back then and a lot of manpower had to be used to fix a lot of ordering errors. We removed those pitfalls and have a much simpler upgrade portfolio.

If you own a Pro Tools license, you have 2 options:

1. Buy an Upgrade and Support Plan
2. Keep your perpetual license, and subscribe when you want to use new features

As for HD subscription pricing and policy not being available yet …. it is my understanding that the Avid pricing committees and product management and marketing are still working through the options for the installed base who own HD. I can tell you that its my understanding that if you have say a PT HD system and elect to not buy a upgrade/support plan and remain at PT 11, you can subscribe at a later date to PT 12 software and use your HD hardware - you don’t need to re-buy that.

Aside, Jeffro has posted some information relating to comments made by some that our plans are " about meeting accounting criteria” which is entirely untrue. They mainly exist to fund product development (the Upgrade part) which he has clearly explained in this thread.

I hope this explains it clearly and please know – we aren’t forcing you to buy…. that’s your choice. I know what has transpired in MC land with the policy changes taking place and with the features delivered already with MC 8 and then 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3…. So I know the upgrades are coming and you will like them. Aside the CET team is still working on PT 11.x maintenance upgrades just like normal.

Marianna
Hi Marianna - thanks for taking the time to digest all of this and get back to us.

I'm pretty sure the community at large already understood the new proposition - what has been communicated here (effectively to Avid or anyone else 'listening') is that this user community does not like it. Or, to be more specific, the 'lapsed plan' component which some feel destroys the value of previous 'investment' in one fell swoop (because of the resale-ability of licences, issues with OS compatibility going forward, etc.)

Thanks for also clarifying that the rationale for this is not accounting policy-driven (sorry Bill!) ... however, that also suggests that penalties for lapsed plans, which put longstanding users in the same place as new users, are designed to push everyone to subscriptions for commercial reasons.

Our hope was that Avid would acknowledge that 'perpetual licence' holders would eventually end up with unusable versions of Pro Tools (due to new hardware or a requirement to upgrade OS for other reasons) and ultimately, everyone needs a subscription, with the perpetual licences only being used to try to 'buy-in' those of us who have already purchased them ... otherwise (maybe optimistically!), we hoped Avid would reconsider this and change this specific policy.

You have reaffirmed what has been communicated previously on his topic (Bruce has also given some hope to HD users) so I guess we'll have to accept that Avid has decided not to reconsider, with different consequences for different users.

Thanks again! :)
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  #564  
Old 02-26-2015, 02:42 AM
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Buccanears Buccanears is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by longname View Post
Nice post Buccan
Depends on how long you've been around and used PT or earlier.
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  #565  
Old 02-26-2015, 02:51 AM
holler holler is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Quote:
Originally Posted by marianna View Post
All new Pro Tools and MC licenses come with a year of upgrades and support. That means not only do you get access to support either on the phone or thru the web but you are entitled to receive every software upgrade that’s released throughout the year. When you get close to the renewal timeframe, you simply renew to get the upgrades and support for the next year. If you don’t renew….. and let your plan expire, that’s fine – your PT or MC license will continue to run but the license will be frozen at the last version you upgraded too.

If you own a Pro Tools license, you have 2 options:

1. Buy an Upgrade and Support Plan
2. Keep your perpetual license, and subscribe when you want to use new features

I hope this explains it clearly and please know – we aren’t forcing you to buy…. that’s your choice. I know what has transpired in MC land with the policy changes taking place and with the features delivered already with MC 8 and then 8.1, 8.2 and 8.3…. So I know the upgrades are coming and you will like them. Aside the CET team is still working on PT 11.x maintenance upgrades just like normal.

Marianna
This is what bothers me and most of us I believe. You keep saying that this new licensing system will be beneficial for all of us, and that we'll like how the updates and new functions will be released continuously, and I don't doubt that at all!! However, if you really believe that people will actually will want to be on a support plan because of this, then there should be no need to punish people for letting it lapse!! That's super contradictory. If the product is good then people will want it, whereas of how its layed out now, people are forced to be on it because we don't want to be punished for stepping out.

Br
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  #566  
Old 02-26-2015, 03:26 AM
paul007 paul007 is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Quote:
Originally Posted by marianna View Post
your PT or MC license will continue to run but the license will be frozen at the last version you upgraded too.
Marianna,

Please release us all, and finally explain what EXACTLY this means.

-If you (un)consciously lapse: there will be no means at all to get back on board?
-You have to reinvest from scratch?
-That means including a new HW purchase to get a HD license again?
-Will the "lapsed" hardware also forever be coupled to the last SW version in case of selling?
-Any other things to consider/pay attention to/warn us for?
-How about toolkit collectors now on HD?

Thanks so much!!!
Paul

Last edited by paul007; 02-26-2015 at 05:13 AM.
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  #567  
Old 02-26-2015, 03:39 AM
holler holler is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by paul007 View Post
Marianna,

Please release us all, and finally explain what EXACTLY this means.

-If you (un)consciously lapse: there will be no means at all to get back on board?
-You have to reinvest from scratch?
-That means including a new HW purchase to get a HD license again?
-Will the "lapsed" hardware also forever be coupled to the last SW version in case of selling?
-Any other things to consider/pay attention to/warn us for?

Thanks so much!!!
Paul
"As for HD subscription pricing and policy not being available yet …. it is my understanding that the Avid pricing committees and product management and marketing are still working through the options for the installed base who own HD. I can tell you that its my understanding that if you have say a PT HD system and elect to not buy a upgrade/support plan and remain at PT 11, you can subscribe at a later date to PT 12 software and use your HD hardware - you don’t need to re-buy that."

From her last post
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  #568  
Old 02-26-2015, 05:32 AM
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::F-L-E-X:: ::F-L-E-X:: is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Marianna,

We appreciate that you & the likes of David C. have been given the (almost) impossible task of putting a positive spin on all of this… but the fact remains that the new licensing/ support model only benefits Avid - not us humble users - many of whom have 'supported' your software for far longer than I have, (& usually at considerable expense). These are the people who have made Pro Tools the success it is, & arguably the people who should be treated with a little more respect….

As much as I agree with the sentiment that "Avid we all really want you to be successful…" it should be on the basis of delivering rock-solid software, with ground-breaking features - not on the basis of annual extortion aimed at it's existing user-base.

Re. the "Avid Pricing Committees" you mentioned, a few simple questions :

1. Were any users polled about the new pricing structures before announcement?
2. Were any major Post clients asked on their views about the potential changes?
3. Were any dealers polled about the new pricing structures before announcement?
4. Was the pricing of competing DAW's taken into account?
5. Are they aware of the backlash to the new pricing structures? (Not just a small minority BTW)
6. Are they willing to eat extra portions of 'humble pie' & admit that they 'might' have got this wrong & maybe even announce :

"Good news, Boppers: The big alert has been called off. It turns out that the early reports were wrong, all wrong…"
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  #569  
Old 02-26-2015, 07:39 AM
noiseboyuk noiseboyuk is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

Thanks for the reply Marianna. It does sound like there will be no more movement from Avid on these plans then, despite the widespread hostility of the user base to them. It does at least provide some clarity for those looking for alternative much more cost-effective DAWs with similar or better feature sets.

Also I take it from your post there will indeed be no option to get a lapsed HD license up to date in the future, that either subscription or a new hardware system will be the only alternatives.

There seems little point in reiterating all the reasons why all this seems like such a terrible plan to so many of us, you've clearly read the posts and decided to go your own way.
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  #570  
Old 02-26-2015, 07:55 AM
ArKay99 ArKay99 is offline
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Default Re: Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

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Originally Posted by noiseboyuk View Post
Thanks for the reply Marianna. It does sound like there will be no more movement from Avid on these plans then, despite the widespread hostility of the user base to them. It does at least provide some clarity for those looking for alternative much more cost-effective DAWs with similar or better feature sets.

Also I take it from your post there will indeed be no option to get a lapsed HD license up to date in the future, that either subscription or a new hardware system will be the only alternatives.

There seems little point in reiterating all the reasons why all this seems like such a terrible plan to so many of us, you've clearly read the posts and decided to go your own way.
Yep, moving on and away from AVID here...
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