Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Pro Tools 2018

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-23-2019, 01:33 PM
bonzerboy bonzerboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 503
Default Print track and Mastering

I have been experimenting with a Template. On the master buss out it has a limiter then it prints to a print track. Can you master the print track after it went thru a limiter or would you remove the limiter and lower your out put?
__________________
Wow am I groovy or what
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:17 PM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 15,852
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

This question to me tells that you need to learn quite a bit before you call your final tracks a "master". But long story short, only real no-no is touching a track that has noise-shaping dither applied
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:18 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,498
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

When you say "can you master", do you mean YOU, or do you mean a mastering engineer? There are differing opinions on this, so this is only my opinion I really don't like to master. I don't care how many tools I have to do it, or how many times I've done it. None of that makes me a "mastering engineer"(which I feel has its own skill/art that is not the same as recording or mixing). If someone else will master the project, I do nothing on the master bus other than my FabFilter ProQ2 doing a hi-pass around 20Hz(its in place mostly so I can see the spectrum display and clipping).


I often will listen with some master "help", but mainly that's either to get an idea what will happen(will it affect the mix in a big way) and I will often do "quick&dirty" mastering so a client can listen to a mix that hits close to "commercial" volume.


Back to the original question, I would not apply limiting if mastering will be done later. If you have a limiter setting that gives you something you really like, print 2 versions, 1 with nothing, and 1 with the limiting as a reference for the ME
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:26 PM
bonzerboy bonzerboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 503
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

not talking about dither or noise shaping
__________________
Wow am I groovy or what
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:29 PM
bonzerboy bonzerboy is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 503
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

That makes sense to bounce 2. I have heard 2 different things. If you are going to send out for a Master dont but a limiter. Then I also heard yes you can use a limiter and then master the limited track. I know you can do anything but I was trying to get the i guess proper way.
__________________
Wow am I groovy or what
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-23-2019, 06:42 PM
wwittman wwittman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Westchester, NY, USA
Posts: 483
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.

If it’s just there to make it LOUDER, then send it to mastering without it and let the mastering process make it as loud as it needs to be.
__________________
William Wittman
Producer/Engineer
(Cyndi Lauper, Joan Osborne, The Fixx, The Outfield, Hooters...Kinky Boots!)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-23-2019, 07:10 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: nashville
Posts: 34,498
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.
In the words of Darryl Hall...."I can't go for that" This is why I suggested 2 bounces(so the limited bounce serves as a reference for the ME). Reason #1-you may squash more than needed and the ME cannot undo too much limiting or compression. #2-the ME might have a limiter that will do what you want, but do it a lot better than the tools you have. #3-(and probably the most important reason to use an ME), its always good to have some fresh ears listen to the final without prejudice. I don't care who you are or how good you are, once you've heard a song 150 times, its really tough to be objective
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, DIGI003 Rack
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink...the more I mix.....

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-24-2019, 07:58 AM
Bookerv12 Bookerv12 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: No fixed address
Posts: 819
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman View Post
Why are you using a limiter?

If the limiter is there because it’s part of the SOUND you want in your final mix, then leave it.

If it’s just there to make it LOUDER, then send it to mastering without it and let the mastering process make it as loud as it needs to be.
What William is asking is something you have to give serious thought to.
The only problem is, mixing into a limiter does make the track louder...and 9 times out of 10, you will pick it as the better version only because it is louder...because your brain gets fooled into that rather easily.
If you're not knowledgeable about mastering, (and why would you want to be?)
I would send the tracks to someone else who is....They will invariably have better equipment and knowledge to make things louder.

Also...
When you say you have a limiter on a Master, and print to a track, do you mean you are bussing everything to an Aux and bussing that Aux to a print track?
There is a huge difference.

Let us know
__________________
bookerv12
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-24-2019, 08:06 AM
Rich Breen Rich Breen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Burbank, CA USA
Posts: 1,578
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzerboy View Post
I have been experimenting with a Template. On the master buss out it has a limiter then it prints to a print track. Can you master the print track after it went thru a limiter or would you remove the limiter and lower your out put?

Limiter OFF for pre-master; you must leave some headroom for the mastering engineer to do their job; if you send them a pre-crushed mix they need to then turn your mix down so there's headroom for mastering processes (SR convert, eq, dynamics) to run without clipping.
__________________
http://www.richbreen.com

----------------------------------------
MacPro 5,1 Dual Hex, OS 10.12.6, PT 2018 HDX, Avid HD I/Os and Metric Halo ULN8, Avid C24.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-24-2019, 08:16 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 15,852
Default Re: Print track and Mastering

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Breen View Post
Limiter OFF for pre-master; you must leave some headroom for the mastering engineer to do their job; if you send them a pre-crushed mix they need to then turn your mix down so there's headroom for mastering processes (SR convert, eq, dynamics) to run without clipping.
^^ this.

if your highest peaks are -6dBFS you are only sacrificing 1 bit, and again if the peaks are -12dBFS your sacrifice is 2 bits out of 24 -- and the best of the best DA converters have about 124dB dynamics which means you can easily "sacrifice" 20 dB below FS without actually losing anything.

Just something to think about. Your system does have a volume control, doesn't it? If it does, then no reason to try hitting red.
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Print audio from Midi Track (not Instrument Track) hardcase Pro Tools Software (Mac) 32 10-08-2015 05:51 AM
Print Mastering question CarlosVaes Post - Surround - Video 0 04-28-2008 01:39 PM
how to print a midi track? shret 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 09-27-2006 05:51 AM
How To "Print" Track? tikboy 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 4 05-30-2006 11:17 PM
How do I print an Amplitube track? meatsurfn 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 02-24-2005 10:28 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com