Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools 12

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:11 AM
JFreak's Avatar
JFreak JFreak is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 16,603
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Eliassen View Post
The norm for VIs is that sustain controls slow/fast on the leslie cabinet.
Okay, that makes sense
__________________
Janne
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-08-2017, 07:03 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 16,423
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Eliassen View Post
The norm for VIs is that sustain controls slow/fast on the leslie cabinet. I have yet to try a real organ with a sustain pedal. The closest must be the pump organ I tried back in '93.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Okay, that makes sense
And even that is an option at least for NI's Vintage Organs and IIRC B4II because you can have multiple ways to switch Leslie speed - sustain pedal, mod wheel and a couple of others as well.

This brings up an interesting question: how do those theatre organs such as the one at Radio City Music Hall that can play a piano trigger the sustain on the piano? I know the RCMH organ went to MIDI control to a large extent when they did the rebuild years ago. But even before that they had the ability to play a piano (as does the organ at the Wanamaker store in Philadelphia).
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-08-2017, 03:26 PM
allanfelipe allanfelipe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: São Paulo
Posts: 14
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

It's possible to open a midi file using some tool that converts midi into text and see the inside of it. There exists a stream of control change messages showing the channel, parameter and value; the header chunk; the 'MTrk' beginning of track, etc...

If I use an opposite tool, that converts CSV to MIDI for example, I can generate anything within the realm of standard MIDI. One can write a new program change, delete a 'note on' message manually, change a CC7 value and insert new CC71 values on channel 2, for example. The text is made, and then: save as .mid, and a new midi file is made with the new instructions.

The midi file doesn't care about what the final result of the messages will be when played somewhere. Don't think about what the cc controls in the receiving equipment, that's not what I'm mostly interested in the question. My question was simply if pro tools has this kind of flexibility regarding the midi cc messages only (and I thought it would be possible through an automation lane)?

Pro tools reference manual doesn't even give any results searching "Midi cc", which makes me think it's not able to do that kind of thing and it's only able to control the parameters that can be controlled inside a session (what is allowed by the plugins and the default track automation parameters).

[Sorry for any severe grammar/orthography mistakes. Corrections are welcome :)]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-08-2017, 03:49 PM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 16,423
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanfelipe View Post
It's possible to open a midi file using some tool that converts midi into text and see the inside of it. There exists a stream of control change messages showing the channel, parameter and value; the header chunk; the 'MTrk' beginning of track, etc...

If I use an opposite tool, that converts CSV to MIDI for example, I can generate anything within the realm of standard MIDI. One can write a new program change, delete a 'note on' message manually, change a CC7 value and insert new CC71 values on channel 2, for example. The text is made, and then: save as .mid, and a new midi file is made with the new instructions.

The midi file doesn't care about what the final result of the messages will be when played somewhere. Don't think about what the cc controls in the receiving equipment, that's not what I'm mostly interested in the question. My question was simply if pro tools has this kind of flexibility regarding the midi cc messages only (and I thought it would be possible through an automation lane)?

Pro tools reference manual doesn't even give any results searching "Midi cc", which makes me think it's not able to do that kind of thing and it's only able to control the parameters that can be controlled inside a session (what is allowed by the plugins and the default track automation parameters).

[Sorry for any severe grammar/orthography mistakes. Corrections are welcome :)]
PT doesn't care about MIDI as such in it's control scheme. MIDI exists outside of PT. MIDI cc's cannot control PT parameters, only MIDI parameters inside whatever vi or hardware synth is in use.

Do the tools you're talking about even exist? Never heard of anything like that.

As I somewhat said before what you want to do exists already - standard MIDI implementation and a different automation scheme inside PT.

Sorry but you're going to have to learn standard MIDI implementation and work within that. I'm having trouble grasping exactly what you want to accomplish. Not some pie-in-the-sky stuff but exactly what?
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-08-2017, 10:24 PM
allanfelipe allanfelipe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: São Paulo
Posts: 14
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

I didn't have PT opened when typing, the answer would be in front of me the whole time. When a new blank midi track is created, the place you mentioned (triangle at the lower left of a track header) indeed can open arbitrary midi cc values to be automated (Just go to Controllers -> Add/Remove Controllers). Problem solved, thanks for your patience :) (I'm aware of the standard midi implementation, the arbitrariness I mentioned is always restricted)

By the way, the tools exist, they're useful to check some weirdness inside a midi file: http://sonicamigos.com/polyphontics_midi_utilities / http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...midicsv.5.html
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-09-2017, 06:27 AM
musicman691 musicman691 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Soprano State (NJ)
Posts: 16,423
Default Re: Is it possible to automate a Midi CC without plugins inserted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by allanfelipe View Post
I didn't have PT opened when typing, the answer would be in front of me the whole time. When a new blank midi track is created, the place you mentioned (triangle at the lower left of a track header) indeed can open arbitrary midi cc values to be automated (Just go to Controllers -> Add/Remove Controllers). Problem solved, thanks for your patience :) (I'm aware of the standard midi implementation, the arbitrariness I mentioned is always restricted)

By the way, the tools exist, they're useful to check some weirdness inside a midi file: http://sonicamigos.com/polyphontics_midi_utilities / http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/...midicsv.5.html
Glad you got it sorted and thanks for the links. I must admit these kinds of tools wouldn't have much use for me as I'm facile enough to do any editing to a MIDI file in the Event List or MIDI editor. Something you'll come to find is that PT's MIDI capabilities are not all that great. I do all my MIDI work inside Digital Performer where the editing is really nice. I will give the tools a look though and see if it'll make a difference for my work.
__________________
Jack
See profile for system details
iMac dead & retired as of 11/4/17

QAPLA!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is there an easy way to pop inserted plugins out into Audiosuite? Brettster Tips & Tricks 40 03-24-2015 07:44 AM
Multi output instrument weirdness with native plugins inserted (10.3.2 HD on 10.6.8) Ryan Hafer macOS 0 11-11-2012 08:27 PM
Record trough inserted Plugins lukeyy Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 1 10-17-2002 01:15 AM
A better way to automate plugins? zboy2854 Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 9 10-04-2002 10:02 PM
How do you automate Plugins surchur 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 11 06-29-2001 06:09 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:12 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com