Pro Tools 11 - CPU usage holding off USB Audio Error -6104

[PReilly]

Hey Guys this is my first post on the DUC I have been reading posts on here for a couple weeks regarding the CPU Usage holding off USB audio Error -6104 and have seen it is especially difficult to resolve or pinpoint the issue for users with the Eleven Rack and new USB 3.0 ports. I'm no seasoned pro but this USB bus with the Eleven Rack (and/or its drivers) seem to be the culprit in my mind. I am on a brand new macbook pro (detailed specs were entered into my profile details Darryl) so I am utilizing my USB 3.0 ports with Avid Eleven Rack and getting same error. Sometimes it happens every few minutes then sometimes it doesn't happen for 30 minutes or more with no rhyme or reason. Pro Tools 11 shows the activity of 8 cores (i guess it sees 8 because of hyper threading or something) of my quad core processor barely moving around 1% when the error occurs so I know the CPU is not struggling AT ALL. The memory activity may hover around 10% give or take 1 or 2 % on either side of that. These are small sessions with 3 guitar tracks, 1 drum instrument track (Xpand), and 1 bass instrument track (Xpand).

Now I now you're going to say that I am not running a dedicated audio drive (which I am currently shopping for) and that may be lending to the issue which it very well may be but my issue seems the same as other users.

This leads me to another question for you: Darryl I believe I have seen you post that thunderbolt drives are a bit overkill for dedicated audio drives however, I only have thunderbolt ports available after plugging in my Eleven Rack and iLok into the 2 available USB 3.0 ports. I am having some decisional paralysis in terms of deciding what to do here. I am thinking about getting a powered USB 2.0 hub to try debugging between the Eleven rack and my USB 3.0 ports as you have suggested trying in this thread and others. If I do, should I utilize some of these ports for a dedicated USB audio drive or should I get a thunderbolt drive to keep the audio data flow on it's own separate buss? I am also wondering if you recall anyone mentioning a brand or type of powered USB 2.0 hub that actually worked in eliminating the -6104 error when placed between the Eleven Rack and computer's USB 3 port.

Again I realize this info may be easy to dismiss as I am not currently using an external audio drive in my configuration but aside from that it seems the error and its frequency is the same for me and other users regardless of this detail so I hope to be a Guinea Pig of sorts to help resolve this issue for myself and others as it seems I am one of the few users out there running mavericks and all the latest Pro Tools and Eleven Rack updates and drivers (I bought all new equipment so i didn't have much choice staying away from Mavericks as it is pre loaded on new machines).

I am eager to figure this little bug out as everything else seems to be pretty stable and powerful when this error stays out of the way. Any audio drive suggestions would be great as this is one of the last components I am adding to complete this new compact system I am setting up and I want to make sure I decide on something that works best with my configuration. Hope this helps paint a bigger picture of what is going on out there with USB Audio interfaces like the Eleven Rack and these new USB 3.0 ports and chipsets. Seems to be the only constant, regardless of the user configuration and software versions etc. Very frustrating but hopefully we can get closer to resolving this. Any help is greatly appreciated!

System Details
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Late 2013
2.3 GHz Intel Quad Core i7 Turbo Boost up to 3.5GHz
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB L3 Cache: 6 MB
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Memory
Intel Iris Pro Graphics 1024 MB
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M
with 2GB GDDR5 memory
512GB PCIe-based internal flash storage
2 USB 3.0 Ports (iLok in one and Eleven Rack in other) Two Thunderbolt ports
OS X 10.9
Avid Eleven Rack Version 2.0.1 Build 0.1.5.7 with 1.2.0 Drivers Installed
Pro Tools 11.0.3

[PMF Media]

2 things, you can pick up a fairly inexpensive Firewire 800 drive and use Apples FW to TB adapter(just make sure it's a powered enclosure and the drive spins at 7200rpm). Also, have you tried playing audio from the MBP's built in sound card? does the error appear only when trying to record or on playback also?

[Darryl Ramm]

You probably need to get that dedicated audio drive set up before it makes sense to try much more debugging here. But good news here is you hopefully have a clean factory install of mavericks on a failry new system (so no long history of older driver installs etc.) and that will be *great* to try to debug things with.

So did you do a clean new install of 11.0.3 and the 1.2.0 drivers or was there any other versions of any Pro Tools related software ever installed?

The other thing is to be extremely careful with optimizing the system. Literally print the list out and use it as a check list marking things off as you go, it is so easy to miss something, especially then all this is so new. Do every last thing on that list (.. disable spotlight indexing (remember when you add the audio/session drive you have to redo that privacy setting on the new drive), disable power management, disable WiFi, disable Bluetooth, etc. etc. etc.) however silly seeming or inconvenient (you can try enabling some things you need after everything is running perfectly solidly).

Once you have that dedicated audio/session drive and the system fully optimized. Then try to run down the list of all the things I mentioned above, if you can cut and paste that whole list and reply to each question in-line it will help everybody here follow long with what you have done. By all means try running down that list before you get the audio/drive but you may need to repeat everything again later once you get that drive.

---

Thunderbolt drives are not necessarily "overkill". The main issue with any drive you buy is to understand exactly what the performance of it is, what exactly is inside the drive. There are Thundebolt drives out there that have a 4,800 rpm HDDs in them are are woefully slow and therefore problematic with Pro Tools. Now it takes a exploitative/scummy manufacturer to put a cheap 4,800 rpm drive in a Thunderbolt enclosure but several do just that. Same with all other drive types, a underspec HDD inside the enclosure will break Pro Tools with FW800 or USB3 drives as well.

Unfortunately the audio drive requirements got fuzzied up with Pro Tools 11 specs, but this is what I would should aim at: at least 7,200 rpm if a HDD, or an SSD and use an Oxford controller chipset if Firewire. You could also get a USB3 HDD (or see the Combo Thunderbolt and USB3 drive below). And don't get Firewire 400, use Firewire 800 if going that route. I personally only use SSD drives now for everything except backup/archive. They are especially robust/reliable for laptop/mobile use.

What drive you want depends on your needs and is a tradeoff between, price, how much performance you need (higher sample rates, more tracks require faster drives), how much space you need (most folks actually don't need GBs size audio/session drive--if you do you'll know that already), portability (e.g. do you need the drive to also work say on a PC?), etc. etc.

If you are a solid Mac user with a Retina MBP I would probalby encourage you to look around at TB drives, but FW800 or USB3 will all work. Yes, with Thunderbolt drives you are paying an Apple Tax. With not much info on budget/specific needs here is one drive I've pointed people at... http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10599 If you are more hands on technical and especially if you think you'll gave more demanding IO needs in future I'd encoruage you to get a Samsung 840 Pro or Evo SSD and install it in an external multi-drive thunderbolt disk expansion chassis.

If You do want to go Firewire800 HDD I would recommend G-Tech or Glyph brand drives. Again make sure it is a 7,200 rpm drive.

[Darryl Ramm]

Do you have a USB2 hub to test with? If not I'd grab a Belkin USB2 powered hub (just because other folks are using them). Like this one http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-Desktop...owered+USB+hub

[gregoryl]

Hi All,

It seems that the issue is with the Eleven Rack itself when I embed it into the I/O. Aggregate I/O and Mac output all works fine. Plus I have discovered that my Eleven Rack when I try to record with it as usual I am getting heaps of noise, crackles and pops in the recorded audio. When I find a reason for all of this I'll post it out to you guys, I appreciate the help that has been sent my way. I may take some time tho so don't hold your breath…

Thanks all

Greg

[Bharath]

6104 indicates that the device is reporting a buffer under run on the USB. I can't say why though.

Does things change in anyway if you check or uncheck "Ignore Errors" check box in the playback engine?

[Darryl Ramm]

Bharath and other folks

To wrap up what is across a couple of threads and some PMs. Greg is getting this 6104 error with Pro Tools 11.0.2 on his new relatively iMac with OS X 10.8.5 and Eleven Rack 1.1.1 drivers. Pro Tools works OK with built-in input, and Logic and reason 6.5 on the same Mac have lots of noise (all noise?) when using the Eleven Rack (so actually nice that Pro Tools is catching a USB under-run when other DAWs do not).

I've suggested he carefully try uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers (1.1.1 on OS X 10.8.5) and try different USB cables and a USB2 hub between the Eleven Rack and iMac. And try a memory reset on the Eleven Rack. And try the Eleven Rack on another PC or Mac if possible. If no luck there I think its time to contact an Avid repair center.

Any other/better ideas welcome. But it does not look at all like a Pro Tools issue, rather Eleven Rack, driver or USB3 issues.

[Bharath]

Thanks Darryl.

When "Ignore errors" checkbox is checked, PT behaves similar to most of the DAW's default behavior (which is to not report/catch some of the streaming errors). Hence my question. But given there is constant under run (Which could lead to the distortion described), I don't have much suggestions to offer.

On a side note, for our devices, we have proprietary ways to catch and report streaming errors. Of course user can turn it off using the above mentioned checkbox.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by PReilly

Hey Guys this is my first post on the DUC I have been reading posts on here for a couple weeks regarding the CPU Usage holding off USB audio Error -6104 and have seen it is especially difficult to resolve or pinpoint the issue for users with the Eleven Rack and new USB 3.0 ports. I'm no seasoned pro but this USB bus with the Eleven Rack (and/or its drivers) seem to be the culprit in my mind. I am on a brand new macbook pro (detailed specs were entered into my profile details Darryl) so I am utilizing my USB 3.0 ports with Avid Eleven Rack and getting same error. Sometimes it happens every few minutes then sometimes it doesn't happen for 30 minutes or more with no rhyme or reason. Pro Tools 11 shows the activity of 8 cores (i guess it sees 8 because of hyper threading or something) of my quad core processor barely moving around 1% when the error occurs so I know the CPU is not struggling AT ALL. The memory activity may hover around 10% give or take 1 or 2 % on either side of that. These are small sessions with 3 guitar tracks, 1 drum instrument track (Xpand), and 1 bass instrument track (Xpand).

Now I now you're going to say that I am not running a dedicated audio drive (which I am currently shopping for) and that may be lending to the issue which it very well may be but my issue seems the same as other users.

This leads me to another question for you: Darryl I believe I have seen you post that thunderbolt drives are a bit overkill for dedicated audio drives however, I only have thunderbolt ports available after plugging in my Eleven Rack and iLok into the 2 available USB 3.0 ports. I am having some decisional paralysis in terms of deciding what to do here. I am thinking about getting a powered USB 2.0 hub to try debugging between the Eleven rack and my USB 3.0 ports as you have suggested trying in this thread and others. If I do, should I utilize some of these ports for a dedicated USB audio drive or should I get a thunderbolt drive to keep the audio data flow on it's own separate buss? I am also wondering if you recall anyone mentioning a brand or type of powered USB 2.0 hub that actually worked in eliminating the -6104 error when placed between the Eleven Rack and computer's USB 3 port.

Again I realize this info may be easy to dismiss as I am not currently using an external audio drive in my configuration but aside from that it seems the error and its frequency is the same for me and other users regardless of this detail so I hope to be a Guinea Pig of sorts to help resolve this issue for myself and others as it seems I am one of the few users out there running mavericks and all the latest Pro Tools and Eleven Rack updates and drivers (I bought all new equipment so i didn't have much choice staying away from Mavericks as it is pre loaded on new machines).

I am eager to figure this little bug out as everything else seems to be pretty stable and powerful when this error stays out of the way. Any audio drive suggestions would be great as this is one of the last components I am adding to complete this new compact system I am setting up and I want to make sure I decide on something that works best with my configuration. Hope this helps paint a bigger picture of what is going on out there with USB Audio interfaces like the Eleven Rack and these new USB 3.0 ports and chipsets. Seems to be the only constant, regardless of the user configuration and software versions etc. Very frustrating but hopefully we can get closer to resolving this. Any help is greatly appreciated!

System Details
MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch Late 2013
2.3 GHz Intel Quad Core i7 Turbo Boost up to 3.5GHz
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB L3 Cache: 6 MB
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 Memory
Intel Iris Pro Graphics 1024 MB
NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M
with 2GB GDDR5 memory
512GB PCIe-based internal flash storage
2 USB 3.0 Ports (iLok in one and Eleven Rack in other) Two Thunderbolt ports
OS X 10.9
Avid Eleven Rack Version 2.0.1 Build 0.1.5.7 with 1.2.0 Drivers Installed
Pro Tools 11.0.3

I know its a bit different, but on Windows, the Eleven rack is unusable on USB3 ports. End up with clocking issues, artifacts, and popping in the signal. It does not throw up errors that I have seen, just noisy and problematic!

[gregoryl]

Hi all,

After much testing and loads of great advice from Darryl Ramm I conclude that the issue is caused when the Eleven Rack, which utilises USB 2.0, is used with a mac that has USB 3.0 slots.

Strange that I also got the CPU error when I plugged my Eleven Rack into a Belkin powered USB 2.0 Hub. Maybe this is why Avid say to always plug into the computer USB slot rather than use a hub.

I have been back this evening to an older iMac that I used, mid to late 2010 model, running OS X 10.8.5 with USB 2.0 slots and everything worked perfectly with PT 11.0.2

I'm hoping that Avid can deliver some kind of workaround or patch for this as I don't really want to back to my old iMac, it does not have anywhere near the same power as my new one.

I sent a query to Darryl earlier and that is would I be able to buy an approved USB 3.0 Interface to go with my iMac and PT11 and feed the output of my Eleven Rack to that interface, if not, I will need to go back to my old iMac.

Regards to all, what a great user community this is...

Greg