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  #121  
Old 07-28-2004, 11:47 AM
grivel grivel is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

>The PT 6.0 session format is the same as 5.0

Wrong, as of 5.1 onwards encryption.
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  #122  
Old 07-28-2004, 11:50 AM
grivel grivel is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

>Actually it was my understanding that the biggest issue with Digi allowing a company the capabilty >(via their developer program) was that the device had to be able to import AND export into ProTools >format. This of course may have changed.

Wrong, as of 5.1 digi has no interest is giving the session file out. It would descrease sales. It doesn't matter to pro tools people, because well, they use pro tools.
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  #123  
Old 07-28-2004, 12:05 PM
grivel grivel is offline
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Default AES31

>I do agree that AES-31 would be nice to have, but it has not been that big of an issue here in the >film community-

Of course not, because most people in post in north america use Pro Tools. In fact, due to the retarted nature of alot of post 'professionals' not necessarily in the editorial crew, it is required on some jobs that you use Pro Tools for editorial.

Pro Tools wont be adopting AES31 or OpenTL, this would make it too compatible with other systems, and alos allows digi to promote their sales into post machine rooms for reproducers. Fortunately most machine rooms already have the number of Pro Tools playback machines necessary, so that end is covered. Since there aren't that many massive dubbing theatres in the world, digi primarily wants in for the prestige factor.

So this presents the opportunity to try new things.

One of the good things about Hollywood now, is many people are starting to try other things, and it isn't as 1 way is it used to be. It's slowly happening, but as far as editorial it's mostly Pro Tools. What the dubbing theatre decides to use is their own business, as long as they have access to elements for edits.
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  #124  
Old 07-28-2004, 04:19 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:
>Actually it was my understanding that the biggest issue with Digi allowing a company the capabilty >(via their developer program) was that the device had to be able to import AND export into ProTools >format. This of course may have changed.

Wrong, as of 5.1 digi has no interest is giving the session file out. It would descrease sales. It doesn't matter to pro tools people, because well, they use pro tools.
No Grivel you are wrong.
Both Session Browser by Gallery software and Mixmap directly support reading ProTools 5.1/6.x sessions. Digi has made it a bit more involved to be a part of their developer program but to make the contentions that you are making is simply malicious.

Open TL is a dead format, and will you please answer my question as to if you use ProTools or are just being a troublemaker.


Charles Maynes
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  #125  
Old 07-28-2004, 05:16 PM
grivel grivel is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

>Both Session Browser by Gallery software and Mixmap directly support reading ProTools 5.1/6.x >sessions

So what, what does that have to do with interfacing the session file with the outside world? Jack. Of course digi approves of that, because it has no threat to their sales, and I don't blame them, from a businesss stanpoint that have to look out for their own interests. It's natural. I would do what they do.

>Open TL is a dead format

I didn't know OpenTL was ever alive? It is not a DAW format silly. It is the EDL that the MX-2424 records in & plays back. It is EDL support that a variety of DAWs use now. Allows import and export of other EDLs. The later versions of the MMR-8 & MMP-16 support it. It is Open code that is free for all to use. It works and many people use it every day. So for you to say it is dead, would mean that every MX-2424 on the face of this earth would have to be erased. But then again, I'm sure you'll say something silly next: who cares, the MX-2424 is dead too. ProTools click recorder with a mouse. It's the only recorder left now, everything else is dead.

I'm not a trouble maker. I just have a brain, and I guess that makes me a trouble maker because I don't conform to how you think.
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  #126  
Old 07-28-2004, 10:42 PM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:
>Both Session Browser by Gallery software and Mixmap directly support reading ProTools 5.1/6.x >sessions

So what, what does that have to do with interfacing the session file with the outside world? Jack. Of course digi approves of that, because it has no threat to their sales, and I don't blame them, from a businesss stanpoint that have to look out for their own interests. It's natural. I would do what they do.

>Open TL is a dead format

I didn't know OpenTL was ever alive? It is not a DAW format silly. It is the EDL that the MX-2424 records in & plays back. It is EDL support that a variety of DAWs use now. Allows import and export of other EDLs. The later versions of the MMR-8 & MMP-16 support it. It is Open code that is free for all to use. It works and many people use it every day. So for you to say it is dead, would mean that every MX-2424 on the face of this earth would have to be erased. But then again, I'm sure you'll say something silly next: who cares, the MX-2424 is dead too. ProTools click recorder with a mouse. It's the only recorder left now, everything else is dead.

Thing about Open TL is that no other manufacturers support it either- which in essence means it is the same as a closed format.
Quote:
>
I'm not a trouble maker. I just have a brain, and I guess that makes me a trouble maker because I don't conform to how you think.
I will take you at your word. If you could though expound on who you might be- What I can ascertain is that-

1- You may be from Europe

2- You perhaps work in the post sound world there.

3- You do post a lot of complaints about Digi gear, but seem to never mention specific user encountered problems- and there are plenty of them.

4- You have not posted your real name.

And it is not an issue of conforming to the way I or anyone else thinks- These tools we use are hammers after all- It is just that I would like to know if you are in this conversation as a ProTools user or just an operator or whatever might be the case.

I certainly do not want to get into personal slams because it is simply childish. SO-

If you might be so kind to give the rest of us a bit more about your background so we can move on (And give this thread entirely back to discussing the ICON)

SO-

I will say this-

my name is Charles Maynes
I live in Los Angeles
I am 42 years old

I do film sound design and recording full time (when I am not posting to threads like this at least.), and have done so for the last 10 years, and have been in digital audio since about 1982.

You can check out my credits on imdb
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  #127  
Old 07-28-2004, 11:36 PM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:


Thing about Open TL is that no other manufacturers support it either- which in essence means it is the same as a closed format.

Not true.Nuendo supports it. And, if I'm correct, so dows Logic Audio. But it's been awhile since I've used Logic, so I could be wrong.
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  #128  
Old 07-28-2004, 11:42 PM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:


No Grivel you are wrong.
Both Session Browser by Gallery software and Mixmap directly support reading ProTools 5.1/6.x sessions. Digi has made it a bit more involved to be a part of their developer program but to make the contentions that you are making is simply malicious.

Charles Maynes
No it's not. Neither of those programs allow you to convert the session to another format, so they are completely irrelevant examples.
Fact of matter is, that Digi has encrypted the sessions to stop the advancement of cross platform compatability. thereby trying to create a monopoly on the audio industry.
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  #129  
Old 07-29-2004, 08:53 AM
cmaynes cmaynes is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:
Quote:


No Grivel you are wrong.
Both Session Browser by Gallery software and Mixmap directly support reading ProTools 5.1/6.x sessions. Digi has made it a bit more involved to be a part of their developer program but to make the contentions that you are making is simply malicious.

Charles Maynes
No it's not. Neither of those programs allow you to convert the session to another format, so they are completely irrelevant examples.
Fact of matter is, that Digi has encrypted the sessions to stop the advancement of cross platform compatability. thereby trying to create a monopoly on the audio industry.
Henchman and Grivel-

I stand corrected on the Open TL issue- Logic and Nuendo both claim support for it.

On the issue of the encrypted session format, I am not entirely sure of the details of that, but I do know that the file format changed due to compatibility issues for Mac to PC. I am also somewhat sure that it was done to hinder the sessions to be hacked easily.

Mark Gilbert did an unsupported foray into this with the initial Session Browser app but had to rev Session Browser with Digi's blessing on the newer version which supported the 5.1 session format. My point though was that their is an avenue which is available for developers to get access to the new file format- Otherwise, the 5.0 session format is always available. It surprises me that Tascam did not incorporate it into the MX2424.

I think the contention of monopolistic business practices is a bit dramatic, And I do not recall other vendors openning the doors for their respective file formats to be readable by others.

Akai, Roland and Fairlight come to mind at the moment....


charles maynes
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818 618 0580

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  #130  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:04 AM
Henchman Henchman is offline
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Default Re: WORKAROUND

Quote:
My point though was that their is an avenue which is available for developers to get access to the new file format- Otherwise, the 5.0 session format is always available. It surprises me that Tascam did not incorporate it into the MX2424.

I think the contention of monopolistic business practices is a bit dramatic, And I do not recall other vendors openning the doors for their respective file formats to be readable by others.

Akai, Roland and Fairlight come to mind at the moment....


charles maynes
Actually. It was digidesign who went back on an agreement with Fairlight to allow direct import and export from fairlight to pro-tools. And they had to remove the option in future sofwtare releases. And it was imoprt export of version 4.3. I had conversations about this with fairlight directly.
The encryption serves one purpose. And that is to create a closed sytem, to prevent crossplatform compatability. Same reason for not having any kind of crossplatform conversion available, like AES31.

Av-transfer allows transfer to and from various formats tpo fairlight, as does the program MediaMagic. Except that with media magic you are again stuck with 5.0 transfers. Which I guarantee Digi will stop supoporting in the Near future. Thus leaving absolutely no way to be cross platform compatible.

In also can't help but think that the $500,- pricetag to unlock the Digitranslator tool built into the current versions of Pro-Tools is another way of discouraging users to have access to it. As it would again allow a much easier cross platform for people not using Protools.
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