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  #11  
Old 01-20-2002, 11:32 AM
CO2 CO2 is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

Hello Park:

I am with you. What company would miss an opportunity to toot their own horn at NAMM (assuming of course they had something to toot about)

It is my humble opinion that until we have a standardized HD delivery format for Music and Post, why bother?

Down converting is still BAD math at best!!!

This really strikes me as a case of shiny new technology that can go 220 MPH but still needs to drive 55.

Best Regards
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2002, 11:49 AM
Nika Nika is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

First,

I do have mics that can record up to 40k, and I have used them for various testing of high frequency signals.

Second: the difference is NOT apparent on strings, winds, or reed instruments. Saying that it would be apparent is taking a hypothesis and presenting it as though its fact but without any form of testing.

Third: Sony will not be pushing 192k as they are working on SACD instead. This format uses 1 bit DSD to record at 2.833MHz. They won't be supporting 192 in any capacity, and won't be supporting DVDA either.

Nika.
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  #13  
Old 01-20-2002, 11:50 AM
Nika Nika is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

CO2,

All converters are downsampling converters. The converters that you're using sample at around 2.8MHz and are downsampled, using FIR downsampling converters, to get to 44.1k for your system. To say that "downsampling is bad" is to make an inaccurate generalization.

Nika.
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  #14  
Old 01-20-2002, 04:13 PM
Lee Blaske Lee Blaske is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>This really strikes me as a case of shiny new technology that can go 220 MPH but still needs to drive 55.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, but if you're coming down a freeway entrance ramp, you'll also be able to get up to speed in a hurry.

Regarding the new HD stuff, if you run it at 96 or 48, you have a heck of a lot more DSP available (not to mention TDM slots). I'd be willing to bet that the 192k capabilities aren't adding that much to the cost of these systems. In the case of the 192 interface, you're also getting the live sample rate conversion, which is pretty cool (and pretty necessary if you want to interface to other digital gear running at different sample rates).

A car capable of going 220 MPH should be able to loaf along comfortably at 55.

Lee Blaske
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2002, 04:29 PM
Lee Blaske Lee Blaske is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

ejsongs wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Has anyone heard recordings done at these sampling rates? Is there a noticable difference?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One interesting aspect of the ever improving quality of our gear is the fact that we're now well into the area where the quality of the senses of the listener make a difference. Let's face it, some of us are blessed with a greater degree of aural acuity than others. In a given situation, I've accepted the fact that just because *I* might not be able to hear a difference doesn't mean that someone else can.

Genetically some of us are stronger, some of us can see better, some of us can hear better, and some of us are a heck of a lot more attractive than others. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Age and the amount of abuse we've subjected our ears to also make a big difference.

As the flaws and inaccuracies in the equipment we use are made smaller, our own personal shortcomings become all the more important.

In other words:

Ask not what your gear can reproduce for you. Ask what your hearing can perceive from your gear. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Lee Blaske
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  #16  
Old 01-20-2002, 04:57 PM
Digital Sound Lab Digital Sound Lab is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

Well said [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2002, 05:17 PM
Tightbeats Tightbeats is offline
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2002, 05:42 PM
relaxo relaxo is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

Lee,

I sure as hell can hear a difference when listening to the Sony/Philips Direct Stream Digital (DSD ) SACD encoding. Digi should make its way in that direction next. Stunning sound quality.

96k at 24 bits? Maybe 1% of the population can tell the difference and even cares to at that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lee Blaske:
ejsongs wrote:

As the flaws and inaccuracies in the equipment we use are made smaller, our own personal shortcomings become all the more important.

In other words:

Ask not what your gear can reproduce for you. Ask what your hearing can perceive from your gear. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Lee Blaske
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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  #19  
Old 01-20-2002, 08:57 PM
CO2 CO2 is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

Nika:

ONCE I have converted into the box, I am done!

IF I were to agree with your analogy, I would be down converting 48 KHz sessions to 44.1 KHz FEARLESSLY.

But there are few users here willing to even do THAT conversion!

By the way, you are mixing PCM with DSD. DSD samples at 2.8224 MHz at 1 bit. The reason for that frequency is how elegantly it down converts to ALL PCM rates.

Check out this site:

web page

Lee:

There is nothing worse than a thoroughbred racer choking along at 55 MPH. Why bother? Why not have a cart to draw before we buy the horse?

Best Regards
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2002, 09:58 PM
nymo nymo is offline
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Default Re: 48k vs 96k or 192k..can we hear the difference?

Hi there,

As it says on the Apogee site......

"Any one can put a $15 192 khz chip into a converter....blah, blah....."

Wonder who they are talking about there?? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Nuff said !

cheers,

N
Y
M
o
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