Buying PT10HD/11HD AC versus Crossgrading CPTK to 11HD

[CPTK]

I know that it's technically "against the rules" to buy a PTHD license without hardware, but I'm considering buying a brand new PT10HD Activation Code to get to PT11HD instead of Crossgrading PT+CPTK to PT11HD. I want to do this in order to hold on to my original PT9 and CPTK licenses for my archives.

Has anyone recently (under the new iLok Management System) had any problems buying a new PT10HD Activation Code without ever owning Avid hardware in their accounts and also getting the PT11HD upgrade? I ask this because PTHD licenses are now "locked" and NFR at iLok (from what I've read.) Therefore, the only way (AFAIK) to get to PT11HD and to participate in future HD upgrades (?) at this point is to buy a brand new, unregistered Activation Code. Since iLok is handling licensing for Pro Tools, upgrades should be nothing more than a straightforward license surrender since there's obviously no coordination between Avid and iLok.

I'm a bit concerned that the CPTK-to-PT11HD Crossgrade will be treated differently by Avid with "normal" PT10HD-to-PT11HD licensees:

Originally Posted by Ed Douglas

I did the 9/10 +CPTK upgrade...

My iLok asset group is listed as "PT+CPTK to PTHD11 XGD"

This suggests to me that future upgrades will be nothing more than license surrenders and that the distinction between "PTHD11" iLok licenses and "PTHD11 XGD" could provide Avid a way to implement different pricing structures for later software upgrades.

Originally Posted by Kurzweiler

Beyond a supposed upgrade to HD11 by CPTK license holders will Avid somehow log "what kind of HD" customer we are also?

Originally Posted by hwill2008

this is what it says when I click on About Pro Tools does this pic look right ?

I hope we are not gonna be penalised later as we did this upgrade from CPTK to HD 11

Any comment avid ?

I don't see any other way but to see the CPTK Crossgrade as resulting in a non-equal "class" of "PTHD" users to the normal PT10HD -> PT11HD upgrader, since upgrades will always be based upon what a user's bundle name reads at iLok.

Originally Posted by WKG

Has anybody else noticed that the new license bundle for this exchange [CPTK Crossgrade to PT11HD] is now non-transferable? No selling/trading or transferring to another account...

The fact that the CPTK crossgraded license to PT11HD is NFR, suggests to me that Avid is eventually leaning toward making HD software tied to hardware.

Originally Posted by Tony Cariddi

...We have no plans to close off future versions of Pro Tools to work only with Avid hardware...

Nothing is specifically indicated by Avid that they have no plans to close off PTHD to work only with Avid hardware. Only the generic "Pro Tools" term is used. Avid can always imply that they were referring just to Pro Tools vanilla being open to 3rd party hardware.

Not allowing "PTHD11 XGD" licenses to be transferred gives me the impression that Avid doesn't want software-only HD customers to perpetually exist through upgrade cycles. Sure you could sell an iLok loaded with a "PTHD11 XGD" license to another, but there would be no further upgrade path for the purchaser of the secondhand iLok device.

After seeing the results of the "PTHD11 XGD" license, Tom Graham's statement at the 2013 NAB Webinar regarding the "CPTK Crossgrade to PT11HD" being a "one time" opportunity seems to be more telling about the future of HD software-only customers. If a future version of PTHD requires Avid Hardware, will there be a difference in how the "PTHD11 XGD" license and the normal "PTHD11" license are priced? We've already seen what happened earlier in the year when the CPTK-to-PT11HD upgrade was priced at $999 versus the PT10HD-to-PT11HD pricing at $599.

Therefore, I actually have a preference to buy a brand new PT10HD (upgradeable to PT11HD) Activation Code in order to "future proof" my PTHD software and to be able to have my current PT9/10+CPTK licenses available for my archives. I'm thinking that registering a brand new PTHD Activation Code would make that customer equivalent to a "hardware customer" for future iLok license surrenders. If PTHD ever becomes "hardware-only" then I can be comfortable knowing that I won't have to run into the pricing inequities that we've seen when HD software-only users have "second class" licenses.

Also, since PTHD software is now NFR for everyone, I actually don't see why it should be "illegal" to purchase brand new HD activation codes. If sellers are splitting up the software license from the hardware bundle, then there must be a market for people wanting just the hardware. Since the software license is new, Avid is actually getting value from each new license activation that is registered than they would have if the licenses were being exchanged secondhand. If the day ever comes that we need to buy hardware then we'd be one step ahead with our "normal" PTHD licenses.

For the reasons I've stated above, I'd like to purchase a brand new, unregistered PTHD Activation Code and am wondering if anyone else has had success getting the PT11HD upgrade license. I would appreciate some feedback from fellow Forum Users so as to avoid having to purchase a new license that isn't accepted by Avid without a current hardware registration. I'm sure that there may be some students new to Pro Tools that may be interested as well.

DISCLAIMER: Some (a lot of) statements made in this post are speculative due to the lack of response from Avid to questions asked several months ago in the "CPTK Gone...PT11HD" thread. My assumptions are based on the results of recent CPTK-to-PT11HD license Upgraders as well as some "wide-sweeping", generic, statements made by Avid.

Of course Avid might be using a different bundle name for CPTK Crossgraders to 11HD because they intend to enforce some sort of HD software-only upgrade policy in the future; but again, I don't see why this will/should happen since all PT11HD and "PTHD11 XGD" licenses are currently NFR anyway. And this would be a very unfortunate direction because it would suggest that future versions of "HD" Pro Tools will eventually be tied to hardware despite what happens to "vanilla" Pro Tools, mainly because it shows that Avid is taking proactive steps to whittle down the remaining number of "software-only HD" customers for an eventual transition. In such a case, I'd rather just go on the "full" PT11HD license path now and deal with the hardware-only issue when/if the time comes.

Avid is more than welcome to provide something more definitive on the subject so customers can have a better understanding of their options with respect to purchasing/upgrading PT11HD today. In the lack of any response, I'll assume that my assumptions above are somewhat accurate and make my purchase decisions based on them.

Thanks to anyone able to provide a definitive answer to the unregistered, PT10HD Activation Code -> PT11HD upgrade question! (I'm looking for an answer from those who've attempted to activate a brand new, unregistered PT10HD Activation Codes since the past week and who've never had Avid hardware registered in their accounts.) Again, thanks!

[nigelpry]

Sorry CPTK, missed this post originally.

I'm not the category of person you are seeking, but I'd like to make a few comments.

1) Paranoia about Avid's future intentions is being fuelled by the ambiguous wording of their 'official' statements, I do find it astonishing that a company of this size can issue such statements without apparently considering how they may be (mis)interpreted.

2) However, that doesn't necessarily mean Avid's intentions match this paranoia. Incompetent sentence writing may likely be to blame. The iLok licence differentiation is puzzling though.

2) HD software licences have always been tied to hardware, in that this is the only way to legally obtain it (except for the CPTK to HD alternative route now open). Anyone selling PT hardware is supposed to give the licence away with it.

3) We don't 'own' PT software, Avid provides us with a licence to use it, within the terms and conditions that they specify. That's their prerogative, and is common practice with software.

4) I hope Avid come up with definitive nformation, however, as time passes I become less and less confident that they will. The caveat that they are restricted from saying too much because of their status as a public listed company may be true from a legal point of view, but I do think it is an excuse that Avid is happy to hide behind, and I definitely think they could say more if they wanted to.

[CPTK]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

2) HD software licences have always been tied to hardware, in that this is the only way to legally obtain it (except for the CPTK to HD alternative route now open). Anyone selling PT hardware is supposed to give the licence away with it.

Thanks, Nigel... I just about assumed as much from the lack of response from our Forum colleagues. Though I thought I remember back in April that some users said they got HD11 licenses when they registered their HD10 activation codes. I hadn't thought to ask them if they already had registered hardware in their accounts because we were all embroiled in the $999 CPTK-to-HD11 upgrade discussion.

Originally Posted by nigelpry

3) We don't 'own' PT software, Avid provides us with a licence to use it, within the terms and conditions that they specify. That's their prerogative, and is common practice with software.

I'm almost 75% confident that I've heard that unregistered HD10 activation codes were allowed to get the free HD11 upgrade without any registered hardware. I understand that doing so without registered hardware is "against the rules", but if it does work, then it's Avid's fault for allowing it. This being the case, then anyone able to activate a "normal" HD10/HD11 license without hardware shouldn't be penalized for the stupidity of a company failing to properly execute and support their own terms of use.

Since all things "HD11" are NFR at iLok, I just don't see why Avid is so concerned about people owning HD11 licenses, because the days of selling dirt-cheap, secondhand HD licenses are now over. Also, most of their hardware is beyond the financial means of a majority of users seeking just the HD feature set, so Avid isn't going to get their business on that front anyway -- even when they limit Pro Tools HD to hardware users only.

Where Avid's license transfer policy had actually been better than Universal Audio's, now it's become worse! The reason why Universal Audio has survived all these years with a very stringent transfer policy is because: 1) They've made software and hardware products that people want to buy; 2) A license is bought once, and valid through different product upgrade cycles at no additional cost; 3) Their attention to detail when it comes to audio quality is well above their Industry peers; 4) They continue to fix bugs with software upgrades, at no additional charge to the customer; and 5) Their Customer Service is customer oriented! They don't ignore customer issues, questions or complaints. Ever!

So my challenge to Avid is to try to make hardware that people want to buy if hardware is to be the, now, minimum requirement to use Pro Tools HD. To be completely honest, with some of the outrageous pricing of your hardware (obviously marketed primarily to studios, like Abbey Road), why not just provide "Pro Tools HD" free to hardware owners irrespective of upgrades? If you want people to buy your ridiculously-priced hardware, then just give the software and its upgrades for free to hardware owners. Since you discontinue hardware on a regular basis, it wouldn't therefore be forever. And... if anyone else wants to get Pro Tools HD software, then let them buy a license for it and pay for every upgrade thereafter.

The only thing really going for Avid at this point is "Pro Tools". I don't even bother with the plugins because I know there are better (and more affordable) alternatives elsewhere. If Avid really wants to get people psyched about AAX2, they should (for a limited time) be giving a lot of it away with the purchase/upgrade of Pro Tools, even if they're inferior to other plugins on the market (or perhaps, because of that reason), but especially because the third-party plugin writers are so far behind with releasing AAX2 that PT11 is not fully usable from start to finish from a production standpoint. Secondly, anyone purchasing a new HDX or equivalent hardware product should just get the damn HD software free for the life cycle of the product. This is the sort of "reputation building" that Avid needs to do to win back customers. (That's my 2.)

Originally Posted by nigelpry

2) However, that doesn't necessarily mean Avid's intentions match this paranoia. Incompetent sentence writing may likely be to blame. The iLok licence differentiation is puzzling though.

I couldn't agree more that Avid's "silence" has pretty much led us to our own devices, much to their chagrin. Of course there are those who are dumbfounded as to why we're so adamant about getting some answers first instead of taking a leap of faith with the HD11 upgrade. Clearly there have already been some surprises with the CPTK Crossgrade, and one that I cannot help but feel a bit uneasy about is when WKG first noticed that the "HD11 XGD" license is NFR. The other big concern to me is the same as your's: Why is the CPTK Crossgrade license named differently at iLok from normal HD11 licenses?

I can't help but think that PTHD is moving toward "hardware-only". I'm not saying that this is going to happen tomorrow. Maybe after PT12. Who knows? But based on the trends, it seems to be an inevitability. If we truly cannot activate a PTHD10/PTHD11 Activation Code without hardware (anymore?) and the "HD11 XGD" license is currently NFR at iLok, then I can only conclude that Avid is making a push to get rid of "software-only HD users". One reason may be that 'vanilla' PT might end up getting most of the features previously available to CPTK users and that PTHD will be substantially integrated with specialized hardware features, thus rendering PTHD unusable in a "software-only" state. My conclusion on the matter is that the "PTHD11 XGD" license may be gone before we know it. With the "HD11 XGD" license being NFR at iLok, I'm more apt to wait on the crossgrade. I just can't fathom any other reason why the "HD11 XGD" license would not be allowed for transfer when it is supposed to be the only "legal" form of "software-only HD". The only thing that Avid kept their word on so far with respect to treating CPTK licensees like HD hardware owners is when it comes to preventing the transfer of an "HD" or "HD-like" license at iLok.

Like I mentioned earlier, I'm more interested in purchasing a brand new PTHD10/HD11 Activation Code at this point, since "normal" HD11 license holders may be treated more favorably in the future than "HD11 XGD" licensees. Especially troubling is that we don't know if the "HD11 XGD" license will hold any pricing inequities to its "HD11" counterpart. Avid should clarify why they've made a distinction with CPTK Crossgraded Licenses when they've clearly stated earlier that there would only be two flavors of Pro Tools: 11 and HD. I don't know what it means, but if history is an indicator, then this can't be good.

I know that a few will continue to bark that "Avid doesn't owe us answers", but making ambiguous statements (as Nigel pointed out earlier) doesn't help to dispel the suspicions of long-time customers with this company. Unless Avid is willing to chime in here on the matter, the avoidance of the issues brought up months ago isn't giving us confidence that they're trying to break from their "old ways". (Nor does it help to promote sales either.) One thing for sure, whenever you mention "Avid" to anyone who's dealt with this company, the typical response is most always negative. Since everything's a mess with the iLok licensing anyway, I have no qualms about waiting indefinitely on the Crossgrade to HD unless Avid is willing to be a little more frank with us.