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Old 10-27-2011, 05:43 PM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Please. Just stop.

Your market speak is failing you. It's far too easy to see through, and you have yet to prove you are listening to us at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
There’s been a lot of great feedback from the community on the launch of Pro Tools 10 and HDX. There’s also been a lot of discussion on the price of the Pro Tools HD 10 software upgrade. I’d like to address some of those concerns here, and also want to revisit the $599 Avid Support Contract details I spoke about earlier in the week. We have some updates that should clear up some of the confusion around that.

Pro Tools HD 10 Upgrade Pricing -

First, let’s talk about the Pro Tools HD 10 upgrade. We believe strongly in the value of Pro Tools HD 10. It represents a significant step forward for our professional customers. The workflow improvements in Pro Tools HD 10 are substantial, and when added together, dramatically reduce the time required to deliver your best results. And while it may be difficult to put a specific price tag on features like Extended Disk Cache, Clip Gain, our premium AAX Channel Strip plug-in, and many other additions, if sold separately they could easily add up to much more than $999.
It doesn't matter what you believe at Avid. I'm betting 48 hours ago there were a couple hundred people who believed they were still going to be employed today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
More importantly, we’ve witnessed customers who’ve experienced Pro Tools HD 10 instantly see and feel just how powerful it really is and how much value the upgrade adds to their business. They believe it is an incredible value. A couple examples:

Russ states on the Air Users Blog:
"My advice if you are thinking about Pro Tools [HD] 10 is don't believe anything Avid say about it in their marketing; they are playing it down - it's better! Pro Tools [HD] 10 may have 50 new features, but it is for a hundred and one reasons that I'm giving Pro Tools [HD] 10 my Editors Choice Award. It's a no brainer." link
Read the article, and the quote. He almost never directly references Pro Tools HD. Way to edit for your own benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Marty Humphrey, CAS and owner of The Dub Stage states on Gearslutz:
"We at "The Dub Stage" have been on PT HD 10 for quite a while and it rocks! Currently using it on a Huge Feature Film and its rock solid!! The Disc Cache rules! HDX is gonna be amazing for those of us pushing our systems to the hilt. The new AAX plug ins are awesome along with the new channels strip from system 5. Now we can have up to 12 systems to link with the new PTHD10. I'M LOVING IT!!" link
Not to discredit Marty or anyone else at the The Dub Stage... but is this really the majority demographic you're trying to reach? How many PT users really need to link up to 12 systems together for a "Huge Feature Film?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Pro Tools 10 14 Day Trial -

The best way to understand the value of Pro Tools HD 10 is to use it. Currently, that’s hard to do, unless you buy it, so we’re introducing a 14-day trial for Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD 10 starting next week on the Avid website. With the 14-day trial everyone will be able to experience the speed, power and capability of Pro Tools 10 first hand, and with no risk.
This should have been out from the start. Why Pro Tools has never had demos before is beyond me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
Avid Standard Support Plan for $599 -

Now, back to the Avid Standard Support plan. I spoke about this last week and we quickly saw there was a great deal of confusion. We really want to clear this up because this program is great for our customers. So currently, if you are on an Avid support plan, you receive a year of maintenance (tech support, etc.) and free upgrades from the time of purchase. So if you were on this plan when you originally purchased Pro Tools HD 9, you would be eligible for a complimentary upgrade to Pro Tools HD 10. What we realized quickly was that very few of our audio customers knew about it and therefore could not take advantage of it. Based on this, we wanted fix the problem and create an opportunity for you to get on this retroactively.

So here’s the deal: Any customer who currently owns Pro Tools HD 9 is eligible to purchase the Standard Avid Support Plan for $599 until the end of the year. Once you purchase this from your dealer, you will be eligible to receive your Pro Tools HD 10 upgrade as part of the program. You will also have 12 months of maintenance, and any future upgrades within the 12 months will be included.

At the end of the 12 months, you can renew the program and get future upgrades and support. It’s a great program. For around $50 a month, you never have to worry about software upgrades or support pricing again.

To sum up, we believe that professionals deserve the best tools that help you be more creative and get your projects done better and faster. We’re confident that once you experience the giant leap in performance and capability of Pro Tools HD 10, its value will be self-evident.

Looking forward to your feedback.
Now this is the hilarious part.

Up until now, you've told us how much of a great "value" PTHD10 is at $999. This is like a bloody infomercial.

"We're giving you this $999 value for just... $599! And if you call now, you get free tech support for a year (just ignore the dozens of tech support guys we let go of yesterday) and the opportunity to get the next upgrade for free! This opportunity is not available in our webstore or at any of our online retailers! So act now! (Why is that, exactly? Couldn't be to intentionally confuse people into buying the $999 upgrade because they don't know any better. )"

Why do I say opportunity?

Well, what happens if your upgrade runs up after a year, and 3 months later the new version of Pro Tools comes out? Guess what! You're paying at least another $599 for that update!

Or how about this scenario... what say you paid for the next $599 support package after your first year runs up... but then next year the upgrade price is only $400 for HD users? Won't you feel dumb. Although, I guess this update is just telling of future prices to never be reasonable again.

Now, beyond logical real-world scenarios...

If this $599 deal is the greatest deal ever... what's the point of even charging the $999? Obviously it makes no sense to pay an extra $400 to get the same product with less support. Realistically, the pricing should be completely the other way around. $599 for just the software, and $999 for software + support. Otherwise, there's no reason for there to be a $999 price at all, other than to confuse, infuriate and no less than mislead users into paying it. That's all there is to it.

Plus, this still provides no comfort for the TDM crowd. They still don't get a better deal for getting the axe. They pay the same price as everyone else to get about half of the new features, and a guaranteed life expectancy at the end of the year. A possible free upgrade is of no use to them, since the next version of Pro Tools won't be compatible anyway.

Plus.... this part is important:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik View Post
So here’s the deal: Any customer who currently owns Pro Tools HD 9 is eligible to purchase the Standard Avid Support Plan for $599 until the end of the year.
What about HD8? What happens after this year is up? Why can't I buy this plan any time I want to? Shouldn't there be a 24/7/365 support deal?

You spend the whole first paragraph defending what a great price $999 is, then shave off $400 to make the Pavlovian point. To make us drool. But if that's the case... it can't possibly be worth $999. I know how marketing works, I've been trained by 3 different companies in how to sell products which are exorbitantly priced. You always tell them a higher price first, work in the "value," and then drop it right before you show them where to sign. And that my friends, is how you sell a set of kitchen knives for $1200, and get 50% commission. This is sales 101.

The point to take away from all of this:

Nothing has changed. Avid has not "listened" to the community. We are simply being exposed to a program that already existed in the first place, but was kept quiet until users complained about the $999 to the boiling point. Now they come along and reassure you that they are listening. This is not a new, better deal. It's the same deal, they are just now telling us about it.

Shady.

If you re-hired DTS to come here and tell us about it... maybe it would be a different story...
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  #2  
Old 10-27-2011, 05:51 PM
danander11 danander11 is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

I'm sitting here amazed again this morning..

How it could go from bad to worse is beyond me, but somehow it seems that's happened.

Wow.
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  #3  
Old 10-27-2011, 05:54 PM
brickroadstudio brickroadstudio is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

DISM-
Amen brotha. Amen.

Dont forget the part about the CEO getting a $400,000 bonus on the backs of those 200+ people who lost their jobs today.
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:46 PM
spenner spenner is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
Read the article, and the quote. He almost never directly references Pro Tools HD. Way to edit for your own benefit.
Maybe, because PT HD Native was used in the videos included with the review, Max made the same assumption that I made, which is the review was about HD.

Just trying to look at it from another angle hoping that [HD] was added to the quote with a correct assumption (although in the quoted paragraph PT 10 was used without HD).
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2011, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Oh man, this isn't going well is it?
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:24 PM
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Shan Shan is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
Please. Just stop.

Your market speak is failing you. It's far too easy to see through, and you have yet to prove you are listening to us at all.



It doesn't matter what you believe at Avid. I'm betting 48 hours ago there were a couple hundred people who believed they were still going to be employed today.



Read the article, and the quote. He almost never directly references Pro Tools HD. Way to edit for your own benefit.



Not to discredit Marty or anyone else at the The Dub Stage... but is this really the majority demographic you're trying to reach? How many PT users really need to link up to 12 systems together for a "Huge Feature Film?"



This should have been out from the start. Why Pro Tools has never had demos before is beyond me.



Now this is the hilarious part.

Up until now, you've told us how much of a great "value" PTHD10 is at $999. This is like a bloody infomercial.

"We're giving you this $999 value for just... $599! And if you call now, you get free tech support for a year (just ignore the dozens of tech support guys we let go of yesterday) and the opportunity to get the next upgrade for free! This opportunity is not available in our webstore or at any of our online retailers! So act now! (Why is that, exactly? Couldn't be to intentionally confuse people into buying the $999 upgrade because they don't know any better. )"

Why do I say opportunity?

Well, what happens if your upgrade runs up after a year, and 3 months later the new version of Pro Tools comes out? Guess what! You're paying at least another $599 for that update!

Or how about this scenario... what say you paid for the next $599 support package after your first year runs up... but then next year the upgrade price is only $400 for HD users? Won't you feel dumb. Although, I guess this update is just telling of future prices to never be reasonable again.

Now, beyond logical real-world scenarios...

If this $599 deal is the greatest deal ever... what's the point of even charging the $999? Obviously it makes no sense to pay an extra $400 to get the same product with less support. Realistically, the pricing should be completely the other way around. $599 for just the software, and $999 for software + support. Otherwise, there's no reason for there to be a $999 price at all, other than to confuse, infuriate and no less than mislead users into paying it. That's all there is to it.

Plus, this still provides no comfort for the TDM crowd. They still don't get a better deal for getting the axe. They pay the same price as everyone else to get about half of the new features, and a guaranteed life expectancy at the end of the year. A possible free upgrade is of no use to them, since the next version of Pro Tools won't be compatible anyway.

Plus.... this part is important:



What about HD8? What happens after this year is up? Why can't I buy this plan any time I want to? Shouldn't there be a 24/7/365 support deal?

You spend the whole first paragraph defending what a great price $999 is, then shave off $400 to make the Pavlovian point. To make us drool. But if that's the case... it can't possibly be worth $999. I know how marketing works, I've been trained by 3 different companies in how to sell products which are exorbitantly priced. You always tell them a higher price first, work in the "value," and then drop it right before you show them where to sign. And that my friends, is how you sell a set of kitchen knives for $1200, and get 50% commission. This is sales 101.

The point to take away from all of this:

Nothing has changed. Avid has not "listened" to the community. We are simply being exposed to a program that already existed in the first place, but was kept quiet until users complained about the $999 to the boiling point. Now they come along and reassure you that they are listening. This is not a new, better deal. It's the same deal, they are just now telling us about it.

Shady.

If you re-hired DTS to come here and tell us about it... maybe it would be a different story...
+1

Shane
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  #7  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:27 PM
nst7 nst7 is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

I'm not sure this program existed earlier, at least not like it is now. While they've had many support plans, I don't remember one where you got free upgrades during that time, similar to WUP.

And, I remember a while back in a survey they sent around they were asking about including this feature, which implied that it was not currently available.

As someone mentioned, next year's AES starts Oct. 26th, so it's possible you can get both 10 and 11 with a year support plan.

However, I do agree about how unbelievably bizarre this whole thing is.
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  #8  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:48 PM
kdramsey kdramsey is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Gutnik
Pro Tools 10 14 Day Trial -

The best way to understand the value of Pro Tools HD 10 is to use it. Currently, that’s hard to do, unless you buy it, so we’re introducing a 14-day trial for Pro Tools and Pro Tools HD 10 starting next week on the Avid website. With the 14-day trial everyone will be able to experience the speed, power and capability of Pro Tools 10 first hand, and with no risk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
This should have been out from the start. Why Pro Tools has never had demos before is beyond me.


The point to take away from all of this:

Nothing has changed. Avid has not "listened" to the community. We are simply being exposed to a program that already existed in the first place, but was kept quiet until users complained about the $999 to the boiling point. Now they come along and reassure you that they are listening. This is not a new, better deal. It's the same deal, they are just now telling us about it.

Shady.

If you re-hired DTS to come here and tell us about it... maybe it would be a different story...
So Avid listens to the complaints and decides to offer a 14 day trial just so everyone can see that PT HD 10 is worth the price at no obligation to buy and you accuse them of not listening?

Max lets everyone know that there is a support contract priced lower than the upgrade price for PT HD 10 and you are still accusing them of not listening?

I think they are listening but the reality is Avid has no intentions of giving away upgrades to PT HD 10 much less than $599, which is a good deal especially with the tech support thrown in...

Kev
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Dism Dism is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdramsey View Post
So Avid listens to the complaints and decides to offer a 14 day trial just so everyone can see that PT HD 10 is worth the price at no obligation to buy and you accuse them of not listening?

Max lets everyone know that there is a support contract priced lower than the upgrade price for PT HD 10 and you are still accusing them of not listening?

I think they are listening but the reality is Avid has no intentions of giving away upgrades to PT HD 10 much less than $599, which is a good deal especially with the tech support thrown in...

Kev
Demo trials are standard in the software industry. The fact that they are just learning this now is proof that they aren't paying attention. It shouldn't take a public outcry just to get a 14 day demo...

Max is letting us know of an offer that existed in the first place, but exists nowhere on any web store... So how are people to know about it unless they actually ask why they are expected to pay 999? It's shady business, and extemely misleading. Especially since they are proving that it's not worth 999 at all if they can offer the same thing with extra support for 400 less.

I'm not disputing that $599 is a decent deal, but it's just proof that there's no reason to charge 999 in the first place. If they offered the support plan FIRST to HD users, no one would have complained. The 999 price point is extremely shady.
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  #10  
Old 10-27-2011, 08:29 PM
Trevoire520 Trevoire520 is offline
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Default Re: In Response to the Response to Pro Tools HD 10 Feedback...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dism View Post
Plus, this still provides no comfort for the TDM crowd. They still don't get a better deal for getting the axe. They pay the same price as everyone else to get about half of the new features, and a guaranteed life expectancy at the end of the year. A possible free upgrade is of no use to them, since the next version of Pro Tools won't be compatible anyway.
All I've heard for years is "we want 64 bit, TDM needs to be ditched or replaced it's too old and not powerful enough"

And then when Avid decide to get ready for moving to 64 bit and upgrade their processing cards everyone has a total [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep] fit.
The customer base seem to want PT to move forward to improve the power and quality of the system, while simultaneously insisting that all the old technology continues to be integrated until the end of time. Surely these are mutually exclusive demands?
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