Why AAX?

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

Ah well must have misunderstood that one.

Well that, and beside not killing all together in one update the accel users.

Exactly. Killing RTAS and TDM in one version would be worse than the supposed horror they've released. I'm still kind of confused by some of the price points, but it may make more sense once we see trade-in offers appear.

PT10 is a really positive look into the future. It has a lot of great features that people are glossing over because of the few it is missing. I realize it's not the release everyone was hoping for, but the list of new features is actually quite staggering compared to previous releases.

AAX means our problems with mixing RTAS and TDM are over. Once people start to understand that, all we'll have to do is watch as Pro Tools evolves into the DAW we've been demanding.

[nigelpry]

Yep, from watching the Avid AES webinar last night, 00:30 here in the uk, they made it absolutely clear that RTAS and TDM plugins DO work in PT10, so Emcha_audio's post is completely wrong.

As Dism said, the circumstance in which you can't run TDM plugins with PT10 is if you purchase a new HDX system, as TDM is specific to existing pre HDX hardware.

But, even then, according to Avid on the webinar last night, you'll still be able to run the RTAS versions of plugins on a HDX system with PT10. They will just run native using the host, they won't be using the HDX DSP.

So, the situation is .... as I understand it ....
1) with pre HDX HD hardware ..... you run TDM on the hardware, and RTAS + AAX native on the host computer.

2) with HDX hardware ... you run AAX on the hardware, RTAS on the host, and you lose access to TDM versions of plugins, so the biggest issue will be about current TDM only plugins, until AAX versions are produced, and of course there may be issues for heavy TDM sessions running out of host CPU to run RTAS versions of everything.

3) with Avid/Digidesign non HD hardware, and 3rd party hardware, you'll still run RTAS on the host, as now, and the new AAX plugins on the host too.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

Yep, from watching the Avid AES webinar last night, 00:30 here in the uk, they made it absolutely clear that RTAS and TDM plugins DO work in PT10, so Emcha_audio's post is completely wrong.

Well.. completely wrong I got the information mixed up betwen the non HDX and HDX version so.. half wrong

Originally Posted by Dism

Exactly. Killing RTAS and TDM in one version would be worse than the supposed horror they've released. I'm still kind of confused by some of the price points, but it may make more sense once we see trade-in offers appear.

PT10 is a really positive look into the future. It has a lot of great features that people are glossing over because of the few it is missing. I realize it's not the release everyone was hoping for, but the list of new features is actually quite staggering compared to previous releases.

AAX means our problems with mixing RTAS and TDM are over. Once people start to understand that, all we'll have to do is watch as Pro Tools evolves into the DAW we've been demanding.

It's basically why for the past few months I've been preaching a neutral state of mind without pre-hyping yourself without official words from avid. Just look at the number of people still fussing about Pt not being 64 bit yet. And yet they don't want to understand that point. I guess it's due to not having actually worked with tdm systems that they don't get that point sunk into their cerebro.

I'm flabbergasted at the moment with the new additions, but even more with the new HDX *salivating*

[huzzam]

Originally Posted by Dism

Well, AU is Apple proprietary... so that alienates the entire Windows userbase... and VST is Steinberg.

Switching to either means feeding the competitors directly.

How, exactly, would this feed Apple or Steinberg? Apple doesn't charge anything for the Audio Units SDK, so not sure what you're "feeding" Apple by using the format. Not sure what Steinberg's licensing is like, but I've heard it's fairly permissive, and given the glut of free VST plugins (of wildly varying quality, admittedly) out there, I'd guess that's true.

Upgrading plugins always comes with upgrading to new versions of Pro Tools, especially if you like a stable system. AAX is also intended to be backwards compatible, so a session with an RTAS that now has an AAX, will open normally. If you switched to VST or AU, that would not be possible, and you would never be able to regain settings from RTAS/TDM plugs.

Um, that's just plain not true. I have the Waves SSL collection. I can save & load settings between DAWs (I also use Ableton Live), with the Waves plugins as RTAS in Pro Tools and AU or VST (either) in Live. No problems exchanging settings between RTAS & AU or VST. Zero. Why do you think that AAX will be better at recalling settings from RTAS/TDM than from AU/VST, given the same plugin?

~peter in oakland

[Dism]

Originally Posted by huzzam

How, exactly, would this feed Apple or Steinberg? Apple doesn't charge anything for the Audio Units SDK, so not sure what you're "feeding" Apple by using the format. Not sure what Steinberg's licensing is like, but I've heard it's fairly permissive, and given the glut of free VST plugins (of wildly varying quality, admittedly) out there, I'd guess that's true.

Because... suddenly every plugin that is exclusive to Pro Tools is no longer exclusive to Pro Tools.

AU feeds Apple because you have to use OSX...

Originally Posted by huzzam

Um, that's just plain not true. I have the Waves SSL collection. I can save & load settings between DAWs (I also use Ableton Live), with the Waves plugins as RTAS in Pro Tools and AU or VST (either) in Live. No problems exchanging settings between RTAS & AU or VST. Zero. Why do you think that AAX will be better at recalling settings from RTAS/TDM than from AU/VST, given the same plugin?

~peter in oakland

This only works for plugins that have their own preset save files. You are still saving the parameters individually and recalling them for the individual plugin.

If you upgrade a previously RTAS plugin to AAX, it will open normally in Pro Tools as if you hadn't changed anything. Same with TDM. It's also designed to specifically support both DSP and Native hosts simultaneously. You can open a session that was mixed entirely native and all the AAX plugs will open and behave exactly the same on a DSP (HDX) host, and vice versa. No more clipped RTAS tracks, no more voice reallocation.

[huzzam]

Originally Posted by audiorivers

The great thing about Pro Tools 10 is that it supports both the AAX plug-in format as well as all of the older plug-in formats, such as an RTAS and TDM. However, AAX plug-ins feature major advantages, including updated code and an architecture that supports 64-bit processing — paving the road for truly impressive developments to come.

You realize that all those "advantages" are also true of AU & VST, right?

Designed to integrate with the new HDX DSP-acceleration hardware, Avid's AAX (Avid Audio Extension) plug-in format brings previously TDM-only plug-ins (e.g., Impact and Reverb One) into all versions of Pro Tools 10. This 64-bit-ready plug-in format lets you choose native or DSP processing, and though RTAS and TDM plug-ins continue to work in Pro Tools 10 and Pro Tools|HD 10, AAX introduces a new standard in Pro Tools plug-in development.

Like I said, that's the real reason for them to design a new plug-in format: they want to sell more DSP hardware cards. A whole new format of them; even current HD users have to upgrade to get the new plugin format!

still cynical,
~peter in oakland

[Dism]

Originally Posted by huzzam

Like I said, that's the real reason for them to design a new plug-in format: they want to sell more DSP hardware cards. A whole new format of them; even current HD users have to upgrade to get the new plugin format!

still cynical,
~peter in oakland

So everyone is supposed to continue using 8 year old DSP technology despite the fact that native systems are overtaking them in just about every way?

Of course HD users have to upgrade some day. A new high-powered HD card has been in the works for a long time... of course it's going to use a new plugin format.

[huzzam]

Originally Posted by Dism

This only works for plugins that have their own preset save files. You are still saving the parameters individually and recalling them for the individual plugin.

Surely the effort to translate between different formats of presets files is less than the effort to write a whole new plug in format, and translate all your existing plugins to that new format, don't you think?

It's also designed to specifically support both DSP and Native hosts. You can open a session that was mixed entirely native and all the AAX plugs will open and behave exactly the same on a DSP (HDX) host, and vice versa. No more clipped RTAS tracks, no more voice reallocation.

Again, my point exactly. Avid wants to sell more DSP cards. So they make all the developers rewrite their code, and they make all their users — even those of us that don't use DSP acceleration — upgrade their plugins.

Honestly, though, I probably wouldn't be bitching about this if the LE upgrade were $100 instead of $300. I just feel like Avid is acting for their own bottom line much more than for the benefit of their users.

~peter in oakland

[browniespeaks]

A couple of things. I thought it was HILARIOUS that MC5's really really big news was that audio sweet and RTAS were being added to its roster. Guess we know whats to come with MC6. The end of RTAS less than 2 product cycles from implementation. Hrmmm

I would also imagine there are new security measures that come with the new format also. PT9 and its every so often iLok check have solved one problem for the developers this seems like a logical next step in the anti piracy war.

[Dism]

Originally Posted by huzzam

Surely the effort to translate between different formats of presets files is less than the effort to write a whole new plug in format, and translate all your existing plugins to that new format, don't you think?

It depends on the SDK Avid has given developers.

However, in the webcast, they claimed 100+ devs were already on board with 25 developers showcasing AAX plugins at this AES show. This isn't something they are suddenly springing on the industry.

Originally Posted by huzzam

Again, my point exactly. Avid wants to sell more DSP cards. So they make all the developers rewrite their code, and they make all their users — even those of us that don't use DSP acceleration — upgrade their plugins.

Of course, it's in any hardware company's best interest to make new hardware, and subsequently new software to support it. This means 64 bit, freeze tracks and offline rendering, and other benefits achieved with rewriting the codebase for Pro Tools.

Originally Posted by huzzam

Honestly, though, I probably wouldn't be bitching about this if the LE upgrade were $100 instead of $300. I just feel like Avid is acting for their own bottom line much more than for the benefit of their users.

~peter in oakland

I agree 100%. I'm not at all convinced by their current pricing structure... but we will have trade-ins and other bundles to look forward to.

I know this isn't the update everyone was hoping for, but it's a huge step in the right direction. Once the userbase gets over the growing pains, we'll see a lot more evolution of the software.