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Old 06-21-2016, 11:33 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

I will reiterate my gearslutz post:
Pro tools is the daw that keeps on giving.. In 20 years I have never been so impressed with a daw the more I learn it. (totally self taught so far, haven't read a thing).

Honestly logic 3 was the first time that happened to me, where everything my brain wanted to do, logic somehow had a function for. I remember laughing back in 98 thinking "no wonder they call it logic audio". I was completely self taught but decided to become a certified apple pro, just because.

I am finding Pro Tools much the same way.. there is always a way to do something, and the functions in general are just a logical extension of the brain. Like the brilliant automatic timeline loop selection when you click on a clip. In logic it's highlight clip, then key command (now command U in Logic X or U for "rounded" to the nearest bar). Pro tools it's just click on clip and play. And if i don't want that functionality, i can turn it off. Easy. I love how we get the envelope gain clips with visual compensation. I love the ultra easy fades with curves and again, visual compensation. VCA's are the way they should be. Groups are the best, and you can even pick what parameters get ganged per group. I love the INLINE midi, all on the main page.. who says pro tools can't do solid midi? I love the beat clock delay in SAMPLES *per* midi port.. gives me best possible timing with my hardware synths than any DAW.. NO other daw i know of has sample delay per port.. they are usually milliseconds or ticks and usually global. With pro tools you can actually get hardware to all line up dramatically well together (of course there is jitter, but it's not noticeably bad with a good midi interface and it's unavoidable in *any* daw without an expensive external clock anyway.. personally i don't mind the natural humanization!) The GUI is simply the best, without contest.. Colour selection is the right balance of easy on the eye and usable. I am so sick of ultra bright or this new trend of pitch dark.. PT gets it just right. Pt shows latency per track as an option, without having to open another floating window.. just one click in the mixer..And so on. Just wonderful workflow.

Anyway, due to logic's severe automation pdc timing issues, (which never bothered me but now I have invested everything into apollos and uad satellites, so there is pdc required all over my projects), I have been vigilantly searching for a new daw. I tried every single thing on Mac, even Trackion7 (the most abysmally buggy daw I have ever experienced to this day, it just disappears with no crash message constantly, when using its own functions and has been doing that since version 2 on Windows.. It's actually a shameful disgrace), which surprisingly had the tightest pdc automation timing of the lot but sucked in midi editing, GUI ergonomics, and crash bugs. (Will hand it to them though in that, even with 1400 ms worth of linear phase eqs on a channel, tracktion automated the high latency plugins themselves, 100% in time, the only daw of all that could do that. Pro tools automates out of time (early) with heavily latent plugins, but they don't affect the automation timing of non or low latent plugins, which automate bang on time. That's good enough for me, as i tend not to need to automate linear phase EQ's or UAD fx in general lol. Logic is all over the place with it's automation, when there are latent effects ANYWHERE..ie it can't even automate the zero latency effects on time, hence, UAD causes a disaster for automation of non uad native plugins. Cubase is just out of time with any automation at all! Pro Tools is a great compromise).

Cubase 8 is a great daw with sloppy all over the place automation timing in general(therefore nuendo would likely be the same), regardless of latent effects or not, Creaper is just well, creepy, Studio One has terrible low buffer Mac performance, and needs artificially enhanced eyesight to make sense of the crowded GUI in a project (with even just a few tracks), DP9 does not fit into my workflow paradigm at all, Ableton Live has the worst overall pdc of any major daw in existence, Bitwig is just Bit****, and with hundreds of missing fundamental features as well as awful time stretch, Reason can't use my uad plugins nor has any pdc of any kind (but is incredibly stable), and finally, Harrison has no demo policy, therefore I have no idea whether I would enjoy the workflow, and how well it would even run on my my system with CPU performance, automation timing, uad compatibility and general stability. Since I'd rather give charity to those in need rather than a developer who refuses to provide a normal demo, Mixbus is not an option.

So enter Pro Tools. My only experience with it was when we owned a mix cube TDM system many, many years back, but used logic as a front end for the DAE and TDM plugins, which worked great by the way. I tried demos of PT software a couple of times over the years but some things annoyed me, basically that it really IS the only daw without a screen scrolling on/off key command, and the only daw that doesn't even let you change the status of scroll follow on/off during playback. Also the fact that when you solo a mix bus, it mutes the source tracks going into it unless you manually solo them too, well, I just was not used to that. (I'm using PT 12 vanilla btw). But of course, where there's a will there's a way.....

.. And so, this time, giving it a real go, and realising just how damn deep this wonderful daw goes, and how the workflow can be made to fit any situation (like the mix bus solo issue above for example, hey, just use groups!), I started to realise what a wonderful daw it actually is. It's audio editing is just super smooth and lightning quick (best of any mac daw for sure), the performance is great, pdc is excellent both visually and audibly, and the GUI is just sublime. Sure I have feature requests, but they are the smallest amount I've ever had of any daw.

All I would ever want is traditional folder tracks, a scroll on/off during playback, some extra key commands in general rather than menu diving or mouse clicking, melodyne ARA support or Avid developed vari pitch (including harmonizer/audio to midi), and a few more advanced midi editing functions (basically midifx like an arp, and some of the fancier midi transform functions of Logic and Cubase). Honesty, I wouldn't change a single other thing about it. It's the closest to daw nirvana I have ever been.
Once you discover the Pro Tools organic workflow, it's too addictive to even consider another daw. That said, it does indeed seem that every single post I read about users jumping ship, is always because they are upset about an Avid business decision ,not about the daw itself.

So why did I feel the need to share this WAY tl;dr post with you?
Because I see a lot of negative topics about avid, and I wanted to express my profuse support for them and say just how much I hope and pray they are successful, and become hugely profitable once again. They have made music *enjoyable* for me again. I WANT them to stay relevant, and in business. Pro Tools is still THE standard. I honestly don't think I could ever bear to lose this daw, after finally finding it.

Ps what's with the subscription hate? I see perpetual licenses for sale just as they have always been.. So why not just buy one of those if you don't want to subscribe? Personally I'll be paying the 200 a year for as long as I and Avid are alive ( i decided i might as well go for the full support plan annually rather than just the program update one at $99, plus i get quite a few nice extra plugins.. the TL space is a VERY good convo verb).
Yes, I realise HD subs are $400 a year to stay current, but if one can afford the 20 plus thousand dollars for such a system, or even the 10 thousand plus dollars for a HD native system (with a couple of interfaces), one would presume that those customers are professionals, ie producing audio for money. Otherwise they'd be using the vanilla version. $400 a year to stay up to date for all time is not that much for a professional. Heck, I know of single plugins that cost more than that. Ahem, cough, altiverb anyone?

Anyway, PLEASE Avid, keep making pro tools shine.. and for future releases, please just fix bugs first and foremost.. that will give those who are worried, some real motivation to feel positive again:) Plus, who doesn't want a perfect bug free pro tools? Oh btw, fwiw, I haven't had a single crash yet. It seems much more stable than 90% of other DAWs.
I'm going to put my few FR's in the relevant sub area in another topic for anyone who's interested. There really aren't that many, just some workflow improvements.

No need to discuss unless you really feel like it, but with all the negative topics here, can you do me the courtesy of reserving this one for pro tools love only?
:)
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2016, 03:06 PM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

I've always held that anybody who claims to "know" Pro Tools really doesn't!

It's a recording Erector Set that you can build an ideal setup to do absolutely anything with provided you are not hung up in MIDI. Could it be better? Obviously but everything else in my experience is worse.
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Old 06-21-2016, 03:40 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

Indeed. For all its warts and issues, I still prefer it to everything else, but I have yet to get any version of 12 to play nice(but I get lots of work done with 11)
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:21 PM
Tweakhead Tweakhead is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

I especially like the Drum Edit page. It's a better implementation than all the other DAWs out there.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:48 PM
studio 1311 studio 1311 is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

Started on PT4 and still feel 7.4.2 was the most stable, but I'm not having many issues with 12.4.

I could still easily work in 7; not much has been added that's been that much of a game changer for me. It's the elegance in simplicity that keeps me here.
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Old 06-22-2016, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

Agree with Studio 1311. Still on 7.4 cs10 here, with the Music Production Toolkit. Very stable with Windows XP (computer not connected to internet). The only issue I sometimes get is the buffer error when using a hardware buffer size of 64 samples. I can go for hours with no problems tracking and overdubbing, and then with nothing else having been changed, the error will occasionally pop up. Could be my AMD CPU setup.
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Old 06-22-2016, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

i tried lots of daws as well, was a long time logic user and now own a pro tools hdx rig. i love pro tools and can be very productive with it. only sometimes i wish for some "intelligent" features like the possibility to loop a selection regardless if you're in record enable mode or not. also i got used to logic being ready to play a virtual instrument as soon as a track is selected. also having to stop playback in order to be able to change certain settings is a bit of a flow killer. but still i find it a great daw love the new features like commit and track collaboration! add more stability and flow and pt gets my love forever!


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Old 06-22-2016, 04:36 PM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinstar View Post
i tried lots of daws as well, was a long time logic user and now own a pro tools hdx rig. i love pro tools and can be very productive with it. only sometimes i wish for some "intelligent" features like the possibility to loop a selection regardless if you're in record enable mode or not. also i got used to logic being ready to play a virtual instrument as soon as a track is selected. also having to stop playback in order to be able to change certain settings is a bit of a flow killer. but still i find it a great daw love the new features like commit and track collaboration! add more stability and flow and pt gets my love forever!


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i guess it shows how different we all are. Pro tools will still play back midi on the virtual instrument but won't audition live playing till you hit the record ready button on the track (as you know). But this has a huge advantage. Logic ALWAYS puts an instrument track into live mode when selected (i.e. at the real buffer size chosen in audio preferences, not the high internal playback buffer), which means as you move around simply highlighting tracks in a logic project, it often send the cpu haywire and spikes/overloads and stops playback.
This is because if you have say a buffer of 64 selected to play live, it's going to use a LOT more cpu than when it's in playback buffer mode.

pro tools keeps everything at the high internal buffer so you can select tracks to move things around, open fx, rename, etc.. and it has no bearing on playback or cpu spikes. It only goes into live mode for the track once the button is pressed.. and to me this is a huge workflow *advantage*.. Do you know apple even suggest keeping a logic audio track selected on playback so the tracks aren't in live mode? LOL.. but sometimes you simply need to click on an instrument track for other reasons than playing midi! Pro Tools makes that easy.

I find the silver lining in everything I guess!
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Old 06-23-2016, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

great explanation, thanks! makes me not miss this so much no more!


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Old 06-23-2016, 07:12 PM
Barry Johns Barry Johns is offline
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Default Re: Darn it I just love Pro Tools 12 SO MUCH - a bit of an essay!

I have always had a LOVE relationship with Protools, but a Love/Hate relationship with the company behind it. Even with all of its issues, I simply have no desire to use anything else.

But, yes there is a but. I am staying at PT10, if I "had" to go to 12, things would not be so clear and easy for me. I'd go, reluctantly, and would mostly likely allow myself to be strung along for a year or so, but at the current trajectory, not one second beyond that.

All that being said, my hope is Avid Sr. Leadership will pull their heads out of their butts. and actually lead the DAW world, but I am NOT optimistic.........
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