The sound of Sampletank 2

[Squids]

Hello Digi users. My name is Dave and I own a company called Sonic Reality. We're sound developers who have long supported Digidesign's SampleCell cards and maybe some of you heard of us from the bundle we did with Soft SampleCell and OmniSoundz. We do a lot of work in the sound development field and you may or may not know about it. For instance, my team helped program the patches for the new Motif ES and the Motif Rack. We also have a history of sound licensing and programming for Alesis, Roland, ILIO and many others.

We program sounds in nearly every sampler format. From Reason refills to Kontakt to Sampletank 1 and more. But, we also have helped in the design of the new Sampletank 2 L and XL coming out in RTAS this September. Since the success of Sonic Synth (a joint SR/IK product) we're working together to bring you a massive amount of high quality sounds in a new player that is highly musical and fun. Sampletank 2.

Some of you may be familiar with Sampletank 1 already. I imagine there are a lot of Digi002 owners here who got Sampletank SE in the box. Sampletank 2 is a major upgrade though in terms of it's innovative and plentiful features. If you get a chance you should go check out the web site and read about it.

Anyway, I just wanted to introduce myself here and say hello. Myself or someone from SR or IK Multimedia will try to stop by here if anyone wants to chat about these cool RTAS plug-ins.

I actually uploaded a few quick MP3s of new riffs using Stretch for fun. I don't know if I can post them here or not. If you are familiar with KVR I did post them there. If I am permitted to post links from here then let me know.

Thanks.

[kmshroom]

you can post links here; ppl here do that all the time (posting the latest songs they've produced/engineered).

i would have to say honestly, and in no disrespect to anyone, but SampleTank 1 wasn't good. it was quite a disappointment.

well, we'll all know what SampleTank 2 will be like soon anyway, huh.

[Squids]

kmshroom, of course you mean it was a disappointment to you. I know a lot of people that love it too. Also it is used on award winning albums and soundtracks so there must be SOMETHING about it that people like.

Anyway, that is Sampletank 1. Believe me, I've worked in almost every sampler and I know ST1's strengths and weaknesses. To me, one of the best things about it was the sound of it was great plus it was really nice to have effects that could be programmed with the sounds. Even to this day ST1 has more built-in effects than any software sample player.

But, anyway, that is ST1. I know there are some people who love it and others who want more features and editing etc. Where I could see some people being on the fence with ST1, in my opinion Sampletank 2 is a whole other ballgame. I honestly can't see any musician not liking it. It is so full of interesting and infinite possibilities for making music it blows my mind.

For instance, what I like about it is that it is really great for realistic sounding acoustic and electric instruments but it is equally great for really out-there sounds, effects and synths. If I really went on and on about how much I love using this sound module then people would complain so I will just share some stuff that could be a good conversation piece... some sounds played through it. This is nothing "official" or anything from the web site. This is just something I exported quickly and made mp3s of me just messing around with it live (no overdubbing or quantizing or even rehearsing anything... scary). I posted it in another forum so let me go copy and paste my explanations too... of course, as long as there are no objections.

[Squids]

Okay. Try this one out to get started into some weirdness with Stretch on a vocal phrase gone out of control...

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidscorner/Vokillizer.mp3

This one is sort of Garbriel-esque. It's an exotic flute sound with Stretch involved and some harmonic control from the modwheel. There are a few moments where I jumped too fast on the MW and you can tell it is not realistic but you can also hear what it is doing clearly so I left it. One could "master" the subtle changes in timbre to produce a VERY realistic sounding performance. Notice there are even some in between breath samples that I mapped at a lower range for added realism. These are multisamples being played not phrases.

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidscorner/Gabreal.mp3

Here is something interesting... another example of convential sample playback vs. the unconventional and wonderful abilities of Stretch. Remember that conventional sampling (resample transposition) is also still great for many sounds and is still included in Sampletank. Stretch isn't the answer to EVERY sound. But certain ones it is magical. For instance, this Chamberlin String sound here... the Chamberlin was the predecessor to the Mellotron. For those that don't know, it was the first sampler actually. It had an analog tape playing per key of lots of different instruments (I used to have Tom Wait's, Moody Blues and Neil Finn's Chamberlin in my studio where this was sample was originally taken from).

What Stretch was able to do is bring these strings to life! It allowed for realistic glides between notes and that is one of the things missing in traditional sampled strings. I'll give you an example:

This is the Chamberlin string sample played back with your conventional resampling transposition (the same type of playback almost ALL samplers use): http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...outstretch.mp3

Notice it doesn't sound real when it is bending up and down? Bummer.

Now listen to this: http://www.sonicreality.com/squidscorner/chamblings.mp3

That is the exact same sequence and sound but done with the Stretch engine.

This is some unsual stuff in ST2 assigning the modwheel to various parameters like the real time harmonics:

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidscorner/Evolver.mp3

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...saniteazer.mp3

This is Stretch again on a Ricky electric 12 string harmonic sample. Again, this is one hand on the keys and one on the modwheel modulating the harmonics in real time with the graintable-like resynthesis of Stretch.

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...Bruschetta.mp3

Sometimes an organ multi-sampled with a slow Leslie can be sped up and slowed down using the tempo control of Stretch. You can have the speed controlled by the modwheel and you can adjust the ramp up in real time anyway you want... listen to this (the recording level was a little hot, sorry... I did this in 2 seconds):

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...tempocntrl.mp3

Here is something that is just really bizarre. http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...iredgalute.mp3

This is a wood flute with portamento and Stretch which can be used to have a synth-like quality as well as sometimes a vocal quality to it on a wind instrument. I went to extremes in the performance so you could hear a variety of timbres from Stretch on a sound like this.

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...ottheflute.mp3

and finally, Stretch in Sampletank 2 can do really cool things for vocal samples. This is me just messing around here but it was fun to play. In fact, that is what I have to say about it in general. It is REALLY a lot of fun and extremely useful for making all kinds of music. I stand behind that passionately. I think anyone who wouldn't want to have this to make music with is really just depriving themselves imo. Sure there are choices for getting various samplers with different features but nothing sounds like this. It's really different.

http://www.sonicreality.com/squidsco...aliangirls.mp3

Anyway, thanks for letting me show you guys. It's 3:00 am so maybe it won't even be seen until tomorrow. I am stuck working on sounds at all hours of the night when I can concentrate (no phone ringing). So, it was fun being able to share what I know about ST2 with new people. I hope you enjoyed the personal presentation.

[kmshroom]

when i said it was a disappointment, i didn't mean it was crap.

i use it alot, actually. i'm just saying it didn't live up to expectations and claims.

and that seemed to be the general consensus (more or less) in the UK, i'd say.

and yeah, i've heard from others (and do believe) SampleTank 2 will be a big step up. the pro audio mags i read (SOS, CM, FM) all say things like 'after a disappointing initial release of SampleTank 1, IK have released SampleTank 2. this is the version IK should have come out with in the first place.'

and since it's getting released next week, we'll know soon, huh? ..plus, i think i qualify for the free upgrade of the module, so i'll def check it out anyway.

what a pricey upgrade for the whole ST 2 thou! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Squids]

I agree that it would be nice if this was what they released in the first place. Although it took 6 years to be able to make it so it's easier said than done. Notice there isn't anything else like it.

Sampletank 1 was great because it allowed people to get the job done fast. I don't know if you had something like XL and Sonic Synth but if you did then that is a wealth of sounds that I am sorry but you really can't find for that price with anything else.

Be that as it may. Sampletank 2 is much more universally appealing. For one thing it takes it out of being just a preset machine and makes it more interactive which is what I was just demonstrating. It LIVES more than anything I have ever heard actually. I've had almost every sampler and synth ever made (reformed gear junky here). I've never had anything like this in my hands.

Did you know that it has all of the algorhythms of Amplitube and T-Racks inside of it? That's $800. worth of software inside of it. Of course, you can't play your guitar through it (hence the existence of Amplitube as it's own thing) but you CAN run guitar samples (and organs or just about any sample you want) through them and save it all with the patch. From a musician's point of view that is absolutely fantastic.

Think about it. Drums can have master quality tube compression and eq on it when you call up the patch. Vocals can sing with Stretch. Plus it has tons of stomp box type effects and a 12 stage phaser that is one of the best I've heard (and I collect analog phasers).

Look, I understand where you are coming from. I do. I've heard it all. I run a company forum on kvr for SR and Sampletank. I have my own complaints about ver 1 as well and ironically those were addressed when Sampletank 2 was made. So, now it is editable, has portamento, pitch & time stretch plus formant preserving stretch, over 30 high quality effects (better than before). It even lets you tune the screen color of it to any color in the spectrum! (some people didn't like the red... I personally have mine illuminating green but also sky blue is nice too).

Anyway, the skeptics can just wait and see. Of course, you can see a lot on the web site: www.sampletank.com and if you can't tell that it is awesome from that then who knows what you're expecting?

By the way, the price for the upgrade is phenominal. $249. for DJ, L and XL users to upgrade and $349. for LE and SE users to upgrade. To get pitch/time/formant engines, loop sync, AT & TR plus a total of over 30 effects built in, over 1500 sounds and a total of 8 discs (even if the first 4 are based on the previous version's samples)... how anyone can say that the upgrade is expensive is beyond me. It's a good thing there even is an upgrade. This is practically a brand new piece of software, not a silly little update with just a new filter or something.

Perspective. It takes a lot to offer 4.5 gigs of sounds and so many features yet keeping it easy to use for a majority of musicians. Personally, as a musician I am glad this exists. It means people can make rediculously high quality and professional sounding music right out of the (m) box! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Oh, it's not coming out next week. We're looking at first two weeks of September. Too many people involved in the production process such as plants, printers, developers etc are on holiday in August. It was supposed to be out before this date but it was decided to release it in ALL of the platforms at once so everyone could use it on Mac OS9, OSX and Windows right out of the box... in case you didn't know that is no easy task. But, worth the wait.

[greenroom]

Originally posted by kmshroom:
when i said it was a disappointment, i didn't mean it was crap.

i use it alot, actually. i'm just saying it didn't live up to expectations and claims.

and that seemed to be the general consensus (more or less) in the UK, i'd say.

and yeah, i've heard from others (and do believe) SampleTank 2 will be a big step up. the pro audio mags i read (SOS, CM, FM) all say things like 'after a disappointing initial release of SampleTank 1, IK have released SampleTank 2. this is the version IK should have come out with in the first place.'

and since it's getting released next week, we'll know soon, huh? ..plus, i think i qualify for the free upgrade of the module, so i'll def check it out anyway.

what a pricey upgrade for the whole ST 2 thou! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please do not say things like 'it was the general consensus in the UK'. I've been using ST1 since it was released and have consistently found it excellent. So good in fact that i sold my Roland XP80. With the additional eROMs it is upgradeable with some fabulous sounds.

I'm from the UK and it sounds from some of your posts today you're having a bad day!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Shan]

Well I own Omnisynth and it gets used daily for scratch tracks. I cant wait for Sample Tank 2. Bring it on.

Shan

[kmshroom]

Originally posted by greenroom:
I'm from the UK and it sounds from some of your posts today you're having a bad day!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the BOUNCE TO DISK error in PT 6.1 has been pissing me off, yeah.

bouncing to disk is like the most important thing in a sequencer. yet, Digi messed it up.

emagic and others have offline bouncing and faster than real-time bouncing in addition to real-time bouncing, but Digi can't even seem to get that right.

...and when generalizes, that's all it is; a generalization. i didn't say 'every single person' or anything.

but i guess you can argue one should never generalize. whatever. i don't care. i just want to be able to bounce mixes to disk.

is that too much to ask?

[kmshroom]

Sampletank 1 was great because it allowed people to get the job done fast. I don't know if you had something like XL and Sonic Synth but if you did then that is a wealth of sounds that I am sorry but you really can't find for that price with anything else.

i have XL. i do not own any of the additional sound bundles. i dunno, i was just a tad bit disappointed with the XL collection. i mean, there are good sounds there, and i use them quite a bit, but i was slightly letdown nonetheless.

i would've liked more good sounds of solo instruments, instead of filling it up with things like 'sax ensemble,' which i'm sure has its uses, but...

Did you know that it has all of the algorhythms of Amplitube and T-Racks inside of it?

okay, now does that mean T-Racks (the plugin) is actually gonna get ported to RTAS PC sometime this millenium? seeing as reps from IK have been saying "it's gonna happen next month" since about 12 months ago, i'm not so sure.... (they even convinced me to buy it in the spring coz they said it was coming out in a couple weeks. when i say 'they,' the IK rep for London).

Look, I understand where you are coming from. I do. I've heard it all. I run a company forum on kvr for SR and Sampletank. I have my own complaints about ver 1 as well and ironically those were addressed when Sampletank 2 was made. So, now it is editable, has portamento, pitch & time stretch plus formant preserving stretch, over 30 high quality effects (better than before). It even lets you tune the screen color of it to any color in the spectrum! (some people didn't like the red... I personally have mine illuminating green but also sky blue is nice too).
Anyway, the skeptics can just wait and see. Of course, you can see a lot on the web site: www.sampletank.com and if you can't tell that it is awesome from that then who knows what you're expecting?

yeah, i've liked everything i've seen so far. even the screen color changeability (red with black writing is tough on the eyes!). but i'm not going to jump up and down about it now, i'll wait til it actually gets released. especially with the way IK has handled the releasing of T-Racks for RTAS PC, which is that they, in effect, haven't.

By the way, the price for the upgrade is phenominal. $249. for DJ, L and XL users to upgrade and $349. for LE and SE users to upgrade. To get pitch/time/formant engines, loop sync, AT & TR plus a total of over 30 effects built in, over 1500 sounds and a total of 8 discs (even if the first 4 are based on the previous version's samples)... how anyone can say that the upgrade is expensive is beyond me. It's a good thing there even is an upgrade. This is practically a brand new piece of software, not a silly little update with just a new filter or something.

okay, now i have a question about this pricing thing. i qualify for the free engine update (registered after may 1 or whatever). so that means i get the completely revamped engine for free. now, say i wanted the 4 extra CDs, do i have to pay the same fee as someone who did not qualify for the free engine update ($249)? because i don't see that as being completely fair; you say the reason for the upgrade price is the new engine and the sounds. now, if i qualify for the engine free, then it's just the sounds, so wouldn't it make sense to offer the whole ST 2 upgrade to registered ST 1 XL users (that registered after may 1) for a slightly lower price than those who registered before may 1?