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  #1  
Old 05-11-2001, 11:51 PM
Bryan_Golder Bryan_Golder is offline
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Default A very important discussion re: iLok - please read


http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001940.html

Please read this thread at Musicplayer.com and contribute to the dicussion if you are interested.

Thanks,

Bryan Golder

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  #2  
Old 05-12-2001, 08:37 AM
bassmac bassmac is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

The lengths these companies go to for copy protection is becoming more and more of a burden on the legitimate users. They're so paranoid of being ripped-off, It's causing them to treat their own customers like common criminals.

It's sorta like trying to be a legitimate gun owner in California - licenses, registration, finger prints, red tape galore. Meanwhile, the criminals seem get all they want - maybe they use Hotline...

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  #3  
Old 05-12-2001, 01:02 PM
Bryan_Golder Bryan_Golder is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

I'm a professional. I earn money using the plugins I use. I do this for a living - just like all of you. I pay for my plugins because...

1) It's the right thing to do (I'm not trying to be holier than thou, so please don't jump on me for saying that - it's just a basic truth and we all know it, ok?)

2) I have used cracked plugins in the past and they are often older versions with bugs that cause lots of problems with the rest of the recording software. I would rather own all of the software and be supported by the company who made the software than have my day go up in smoke in front of a client because I saved a measly $500 by using a cracked plugin that has a bug in it.

I really hope you will all read the Musicplayer thread and understand the issue that surround Bombfactory's statement to me. Please voice your opinion on this. We all need to demand protection and fair treatment by the software developers when it comes to copy protection technology. We allow them to burden us with copy protection technology so they can protect themselves. The least they can do is make an effort to protect their paying customers in the process. I don't know about all of you - but I've got many many thousands of dollars invested in plugins. The loss of a $30 iLok should not result in the loss of $100 or $10,000 in plugins.

Best,

Bryan Golder
bryan@goldermedia.com
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2001, 12:11 AM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

I vote with my money. I've exchanged several emails both with BF (Eric) and with McDSP (Colin) over the last year or so, and I'm very aware of their positions and how each treats their customers.

Guess who has my money and will get more?



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PTLE8/002r;OS 10.6.4 2 x 2.26Ghz quadcore,6GB RAM, Waves Platinum, many other plugins...
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  #5  
Old 05-13-2001, 08:51 AM
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Chris Lambrechts Chris Lambrechts is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Interesting stuff and agree with most of it although I have to say something to produceher.

P,

I do NOT think it is legal to do what you do for the simple reason that cracking them is illegal to start with so in fact you would be using illegal software, even if you have the originals in your closet.

Another thing is that I don't find it a good idea to mention sources on here. A lot of us know where to get them but a lot of us don't. And mentioning / revealing sources will only drive people who don't know into the temptation of trying to find them and you kinda help them by pointing them into a certain direction.

I know that who realy wants to ... will eventually find them. I just would not want to be the one who told them where ?????

I realy hope they do find a solution someday, call me a dreamer, .... a world with legal uncrackable soft only ......



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  #6  
Old 05-13-2001, 08:52 AM
mfym mfym is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

A very interesting thread at Music Player.

All I can say it what I've always said. There already exist encription strong enough to never be cracked, if only the world governments would allow it. Instead any government, particulary the American government, wants the ability to break into anybody's computer and does not allow strong encription to be used. I guess you can't fight city hall.

BTW: I'll never BF plug-ins. Who needs a company where the customer service department chooses one customer to be the a**hole of the month, and whose owner is paranoid about protection.
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Old 05-13-2001, 09:36 AM
KamaSutra77 KamaSutra77 is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

The overly hyped protection schemes do nothing but make using them a hassel. Since all legitimate money earning users must have thier records straight, and will have, in actuality, the means to "write off" the cost of them. By that I mean a studio can afford expensive plugins and an ilok thing and a tech guy to trck its use. Iliek the BF plugs ( the demos I tried) but I cant afford em, especially if I have to buy other things to go along with them to make them usable, then if the thing gets lost or whatnot, im out my plugins. Oh wlel i get by ok without them. Someday when I have a studio I'll Be gald to pay for them and charge the overhead to clients.

[This message has been edited by KamaSutra77 (edited May 13, 2001).]
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Old 05-13-2001, 09:44 AM
KamaSutra77 KamaSutra77 is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Its funny, becasue the underlying notion of the manufacturers is that everybody will just buy the plugins. I want to refraise my stance. I personally cant afford them. But they seem cool. As far as copy protection.. I was dissapointed when i saw the ilok, I though gee, another gadget between me and the music. I ws lookign forward to trying the pultech one and the fairchild. Heard those name for years, but never se one or got to twiddle the knobs.
I still think Light versions with limited settings, or preprogrammed set ups would be cool. Then the engineers would be happy with thier full, and the hobbiests would be happy to have them at all.

[This message has been edited by KamaSutra77 (edited May 13, 2001).]
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2001, 01:59 PM
Bryan_Golder Bryan_Golder is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

I won't debate the value or lack of value of plugins here. For the most part, I think they are all a very good value. A lot of plugins sound great, and we get unlimited instances of them in our mixes, limited only by our DSP investment.

I don't want to threaten software manufacturers and say, if you aren't going to treat me right, I'm going to use cracked plugins and steal from you. I don't think that approach solves any problems in the long term. Like any high-tech business, the development of audio plugins undoubtedly requires a massive investment in man hours and engineering expenses. I am not trying to be combative with anyone here. I just want the developers, particularly Bombfactory, to say "Thank you for paying for our product. We are going to support you as a customer and protect your investment. We understand that you invested your money in our audio software, not our copy protection technology, and we do not intend to burden you in any way with the technology we use to protect ourselves from software piracy. If the copy protection device fails, or is lost or stolen, we will provide a means for you to recover your authorizations so you can continue to use the audio software you purchased."

That's all I want. Today is Sunday. My hope is Bombfactory will publicly offer a similar statement within the next few business days.

Bryan Golder
bryan@goldermedia.com
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2001, 04:07 PM
bombfactory bombfactory is offline
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Default Re: A very important discussion re: iLok - please read

Hello Bryan,

In the event of an iLok problem or failure, of course we take care of the customer. We do whatever necessary to get you back and running as soon as possible, just like we always have. And in the event of a damaged iLok, you'd get a replacement at no charge, of course.

I won't debate the copy protection issue other than to point out that we looked at it long and hard, and, like every other major plug-in manufacturer, decided we simply have to copy protect our software.

Because of this, both parties have a responsibility. First and foremost, the manufacturer has to make sure that the customer experience is taken into consideration. And second, the customer has to realize that he has a responsibility, too.

Long before we made plug-ins, Bomb Factory started as a top Los Angeles recording facility. We are aware of the problems that arise when you're trying to get work done under pressure!

Not surprisingly, Bomb Factory has always led the industry with very liberal copy protection solutions, including 24-hour emergency authorizations that registered customers can generate themselves on the web. Lose an auth at 3 am in the middle of a mix? You're covered. Nobody else does this. And obviously we do it because we care about our customers.

Copy protection is not going away, but we're doing everything we can to make it fair. But we need your help here, too.

Unfortunately, if you lose an iLok, or if it gets stolen, that's a very different situation.

iLok is a physical device with potentially great value. As such, it needs to be treated like any other valuable object by both the seller and the buyer.

If you buy a diamond ring, then lose it, your local jeweler won't provide you with a replacement for obvious
reasons. And in the event of loss or theft of your iLok, you'll need to purchase your Bomb Factory software again.

Although this stance seems harsh at first glance, there's a good reason behind it. An authorized iLok has great value. So we recommend that you treat iLok just like a diamond ring. Either 1) don't lose it or 2) insure it.

All that said, obviously we will treat any problem on a case by case basis. If somebody's garage studio burns down, and they're not insured, hey--we have a heart, too. Likewise a polite email and a copy of a police report will get you pretty far.

We will not comment any further in public on this matter. If you have further questions, please email us at support@bombfactory.com and we'll be happy to address your questions one on one.

Thanks,
--Erik Gavriluk
President, Bomb Factory
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