Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-17-2007, 06:27 AM
tom.joyce tom.joyce is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Default System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

It has become aware that our HD TDM system which we have recently upgraded to 7.3.1cs2 has a two frame delay that insert audio 2 frames earlier than the pro tools session timecode. I had a previous problem with video digitizing dropping frames that was thought to be the fact that our sync is a 3209 sample system delay. This obviously is the problem but how do I fix it??? new update due??? otherwise i'm guessing my sync by 2 frames, which is really not good.

Thanks for your time

Tom
__________________
Thomas Joyce
Dubbing Mixer / Sound Designer
003 Factory, Mac Pro Quad Core, PT 7.3.1cs4
http://www.myspace.com/tomjoyce01
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-17-2007, 07:28 AM
minister's Avatar
minister minister is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,807
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

Tom

your post is confusing.

you will need to provide us with more informaton if we are to help you.

how are you digitizing the video?

how are you playing back the video?

your 2 frame offset suggests a Plasma display or LCD for video playback.

is your system locked to Black Burst?

are you using ADC?

Tom
__________________
Tom Hambleton CAS
Ministry of Fancy Noises
IMDb
Undertone on Facebook
Undertone Custom Sound Libraries

"Groupable markers would be epochal!"
-Starcrash
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-17-2007, 08:12 AM
tom.joyce tom.joyce is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

Sorry your right, after a re-read. It's not so much about the video although this is a problem. I'm looking at an SDI output from the digibeta itself so it's not a plasma thing. I have black burst and this problem has only happened before 7.3 and was fine at 7.1. Its also not actually a delay, its coming in 1.6 frames before the insertion point in pro tools. Essentually it is the system delay but i don't know how to fix it? any ideas? is it lack of DSP?

what is ADC?
__________________
Thomas Joyce
Dubbing Mixer / Sound Designer
003 Factory, Mac Pro Quad Core, PT 7.3.1cs4
http://www.myspace.com/tomjoyce01
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-17-2007, 08:29 AM
minister's Avatar
minister minister is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,807
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

Quote:
I'm looking at an SDI output from the digibeta itself so it's not a plasma thing.
brain implants?

how? SDI output from Digibeta digitized how? viewed on what?
Quote:
I have black burst and this problem has only happened before 7.3 and was fine at 7.1.
before 7.3 but fine at 7.1. since 7.2? i am not just being a smartass, i am trying to understand your situation..... you say that you did not have this offset before 7.3? it all worked fine in 7.1? exact same system?
Quote:
Its also not actually a delay, its coming in 1.6 frames before the insertion point in pro tools.
the Video comes into the timeline in Pro Tools 1.6 frames before it is supposed to? is that what you are saying?

Quote:
Essentually it is the system delay but i don't know how to fix it?
the system delay as depicted in the Session Setup window? are you running a lot of plug-ins? RTAS? WAVES L3 on the master bus.

if you could outline your system, i think it would help.

Quote:
what is ADC?
Automatic Delay Compensation. from the Pro Tools Manual:

Quote:
Delay Compensation
Delay Compensation automatically manages
DSP delays that occur on audio tracks, Auxiliary
Inputs, or Master Faders because of plug-in use
and mixer routing. With Delay Compensation
enabled, Pro Tools maintains time-alignment
between tracks that have plug-ins with differing
DSP delays, tracks with different mixing paths,
tracks that are split off and recombined within
the mixer, and tracks with hardware inserts.
if you are running a lot of plug-ins and do not compensate for it, your audio will sound late.
__________________
Tom Hambleton CAS
Ministry of Fancy Noises
IMDb
Undertone on Facebook
Undertone Custom Sound Libraries

"Groupable markers would be epochal!"
-Starcrash
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-17-2007, 09:05 AM
Sonsey Sonsey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 500
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

Tom... I've seen what you're talking about.... It SEEMS to be a problem when you have more delay on tracks then your ADC can handle, but I haven't been able to find EXACTLY when it happens... sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. When it does, disabling the plugs on the tracks with the long delays will bring everything back into line. The Waves NR stuff seems to be one of the cheif culprits on my system. Also try turning OFF ADC and manually nudging your tracks.
__________________
"Ya canna change the laws of physics..."
-Montgomery Scott

Howard Sonnenburg
Atomic Audio
Ottawa, ON
Canada
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-17-2007, 10:14 AM
minister's Avatar
minister minister is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,807
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

hi howard,

your system will display red numbers in the delay compensation display on your tracks when you are over.

what i am puzzled about is how his video is on his Pro Tools timeline 1.6 frames 'early'.

__________________
Tom Hambleton CAS
Ministry of Fancy Noises
IMDb
Undertone on Facebook
Undertone Custom Sound Libraries

"Groupable markers would be epochal!"
-Starcrash
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-17-2007, 11:19 AM
tom.joyce tom.joyce is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 18
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

Quote:
Quote:
I'm looking at an SDI output from the digibeta itself so it's not a plasma thing.
brain implants?

how? SDI output from Digibeta digitized how? viewed on what?




forget digitizing in. this is my layback to tape. i'm insert the mix onto the tape with the SDI output of the deck into my monitor.



Quote:
I have black burst and this problem has only happened before 7.3 and was fine at 7.1.
before 7.3 but fine at 7.1. since 7.2? i am not just being a smartass, i am trying to understand your situation..... you say that you did not have this offset before 7.3? it all worked fine in 7.1? exact same system?




Thats correct it was all working on the same system on 7.1 but since 7.3 it has offset ahead 1.6 frames.



Quote:
Its also not actually a delay, its coming in 1.6 frames before the insertion point in pro tools.
the Video comes into the timeline in Pro Tools 1.6 frames before it is supposed to? is that what you are saying?



this is on layback to tape that the audio comes in 1.6 frames before start of program video but in pro tools it starts at start of program.



Quote:
Essentually it is the system delay but i don't know how to fix it?
the system delay as depicted in the Session Setup window? are you running a lot of plug-ins? RTAS? WAVES L3 on the master bus.



there is very little taxing plug ins and it happens on all sessions including basic ones and i do have delay compansation on 'long' the the prefs. But as it the not late and it is early that's the strange problem.



if you could outline your system, i think it would help.



pt hd 7.3
g5
192
sync
sdi router
sdi embedder
digibeta



Quote:
what is ADC?
Automatic Delay Compensation. from the Pro Tools Manual:

Quote:
Delay Compensation
Delay Compensation automatically manages
DSP delays that occur on audio tracks, Auxiliary
Inputs, or Master Faders because of plug-in use
and mixer routing. With Delay Compensation
enabled, Pro Tools maintains time-alignment
between tracks that have plug-ins with differing
DSP delays, tracks with different mixing paths,
tracks that are split off and recombined within
the mixer, and tracks with hardware inserts.
if you are running a lot of plug-ins and do not compensate for it, your audio will sound late.
__________________
Thomas Joyce
Dubbing Mixer / Sound Designer
003 Factory, Mac Pro Quad Core, PT 7.3.1cs4
http://www.myspace.com/tomjoyce01
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-17-2007, 11:47 AM
minister's Avatar
minister minister is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 4,807
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

ahh... LAYBACK.

using Machine Control? if so, do you have the correct profile for your machine?

or, LTC?

ADC delays everything to the longest and then once it is all in sync, it pulls it back into time. mabe there is a bug with ADC? i dunno. i haven't run into it.
__________________
Tom Hambleton CAS
Ministry of Fancy Noises
IMDb
Undertone on Facebook
Undertone Custom Sound Libraries

"Groupable markers would be epochal!"
-Starcrash
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-17-2007, 03:25 PM
Sonsey Sonsey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 500
Default Re: System Delay by 3209 samples giving a 2 frame pre delay

I think there MAY be a bug in ADC in 7.3. I have a repeatable issue in one session, where I have a Waves DeNoise on a single dialog track that's bussed to an Aux. The Delay window correctly shows that the 8200 odd samples of delay is beyond the ADC, BUT the other two tracks feeding that bus ARE advanced by 4096 samples! They are actually AHEAD of the playback position... I wonder if this is a Waveshell bug or a DAE bug? When I get a chance I'll try taking the track OFF the bus and see if the problem goes away. Of course this doesn't explain Tom's issue with Layback, but it may be related.
__________________
"Ya canna change the laws of physics..."
-Montgomery Scott

Howard Sonnenburg
Atomic Audio
Ottawa, ON
Canada
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SRW 5500 5 Frame Delay Problem cuttothebeat Post - Surround - Video 24 06-08-2010 05:43 PM
volume/peak/delay, delay shown in samples or ms? Ziko 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 07-29-2008 05:11 PM
Delay samples ricardo1073 Tips & Tricks 2 01-13-2008 11:28 AM
how many samples delay...? drivingmecrazy 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 8 08-10-2007 05:55 AM
002 standalone frame delay? Kelly M. Pieklo 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 08-18-2005 07:47 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:05 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com