Advice on setup please

[its2loud]

Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi

Thanks for the advice. I’m in an unusual situation as far as my room is concerned. It was very well built, with a double shell construction but well over 40 years ago as a mono film dubbing theatre. I don’t think the acoustics are bad but almost certainly not ideal for a surround/Atmos setup and I won’t be allowed to change them much or get an acoustician in to measure or do any treatment. So in my case, the Trinnov probably will be worthwhile.

I have looked at the AX Center but from what I can see it’s not available until Q4, so I might not be able to get my hands on one for 6 months. It might be a better choice if I decide to go with option 2 and the funds don’t appear for a while though.

Thanks, G

I'm not understand that rational. Anything the Trinnov can give as far as room EQ can be done inside of the DADMan software as well. Not really sure what room acoustics have to do with which monitor controller to go with if they both have the same room tuning features.

[Greg Malcangi]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Not really sure what room acoustics have to do with which monitor controller to go with if they both have the same room tuning features.

They don’t have the same room tuning features though. The Trinnov has a tetrahedral measuring mic, so can automatically measure and compensate not only for tuning/EQ but position, delay, crossovers and phase, and does it all automatically.

G

[its2loud]

Ok. So you want to spend $4000 on the Trinnov because it does tuning automatically instead of hiring someone to come tune your room properly for Dolby Atmos? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but it’s your $$$

[paulo m]

Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi

Paulo, no problems with the late reply, I’m just grateful for the info!


1. I don’t have the Trinnov yet. The only things I already have, which would be useable from my prior setup, are a D-Control ES (hence my need to use Rosetta), a Sync HD and BB/Tri-Level generator. Thanks for all the routing suggestions, seems pretty straight forward.

2. OK, your answer implies the DAB has no particular sync issues when used as PT’s playback engine. Good to know! I was only considering Core Audio TB as the playback engine because I was under the impression the DAB has sloppy sync, although that impression might only be true when the DAB is used as an AUX I/O output? If the DAB is unreliable when used from AUX I/O, I presume that would negate the benefit of frame edge sync with my option #1 (HDX/MTRX Studio) as my playback engine would need to be the hybrid engine?

3. Yep, there are a couple of issues I’ll need to figure out (talkback from the ICON for example). Moving the Focusrite to the mix room will be easy enough if I want to monitor a binaural mix, as I can’t see I’ll be needing to record ADR and monitor binaural at the same time.

The Sync HD will probably be useless if go with option #2 as the Core 256 will take BB/Tri-level sync from the generator but it might be necessary (in standalone mode) if the Trinnov needs word clock although it should just use the Dante clock, as it’s not doing any conversion.

Thanks again, G

Hi Greg, just to simplify things:

1-If you don´t have the Trinnov and like others have said, you could do speaker optimization vs your acoustics in DADMan, provided you hire somebody that does know how to properly measure a room and calibrate things. Yes, the Trinnov is a wonderful device with it´s "auto" calibration features, but it will cost you a lot and you´re going to pay and waste features on DADMan on all your options. Also, there is a new model called Nova that replaces the MC Dante. There´s also other options on the market for auto calibration that works with any speaker brand (well, almost), for instance Sonarworks and IK Multimedia´s ARC. Sonarwaorks now integrates into the DSP of some speaker brands/models, so check on their site. Another option is to buy speakers from a manufacturer that provides their ownspeaker calibration and DSP on their speakers, like Genelec, Neumann etc.

2-Regarding DAB, AUX I/O and Hybrid Mode, the later only applies if you have HDX, the former two can be used without problems on Core Audio only systems like your Option 2, although I´ve already mentioned that you should be using DAB as PT Playback engine to feed the Dolby Renderer (when installed on the same machine), that´s the recommended procedure. You only use HDX as Playback engine when running PT in Hybrid Mode and create an AUX I/O Output in DAB form, to feed the Renderer while simultaneously use HDX to use the DSP from the HDX card and run AAX DSP plugins on it.

3-Having a Trilevel generator (for 4K video) is only useful if your video card has that connection. The cheaper models from BM or AJA don´t have that.

4-Regarding Talkback from the D Command, you´ll need some sort of analogue to digital converter to feed it into DAD Core, so it´s gonna cost you, just for one mono out. The cheapest will be ADAT, but nevertheless a bit pricey and nonsense for what it is. I would run an analogue cable from the TB out in X-MON into one of the analogue inputs of the Focusrite XP2 instead (if you still evaluating buying that of course.

To conclude, check the money you have for the investment, think about what you can do and try to simplify things. Buy things that can have a future upgrade.

Considering what you have already mentioned that you have at the moment, I would definitely go for my suggestion of having the MTRX Studio with the Thunderbolt option card has the center piece of your setup (going Core Audio at first and save some money until you think you need an HDX card), forget the Trinnov for now and invest that money in either another calibration software, a speaker manufacturer that provides that or hire an acoustician.

That´s my thoughts. All the best.

[Greg Malcangi]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Ok. So you want to spend $4000 on the Trinnov because it does tuning automatically instead of hiring someone to come tune your room properly for Dolby Atmos? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me but it’s your $$$

I realise it doesn’t make much sense to you but to me it does because there are circumstances you’re not aware of.

Originally Posted by paulo m

1-Yes, the Trinnov is a wonderful device with it´s "auto" calibration features, but it will cost you a lot and you´re going to pay and waste features on DADMan on all your options. Also, there is a new model called Nova that replaces the MC Dante.

2-You only use HDX as Playback engine when running PT in Hybrid Mode and create an AUX I/O Output in DAB form, to feed the Renderer while simultaneously use HDX to use the DSP from the HDX card and run AAX DSP plugins on it.

3-Having a Trilevel generator (for 4K video) is only useful if your video card has that connection. The cheaper models from BM or AJA don´t have that.

4-Regarding Talkback from the D Command, you´ll need some sort of analogue to digital converter to feed it into DAD Core, so it´s gonna cost you, just for one mono out.

1. Yes, I realise I’ll be wasting the SPQ features of either option if I use the Trinnov. BTW, the Nova has a maximum of 6 optimised output channels, the MC Pro Dante is the cheapest option if 8 - 16 channels are required.

2. I’m trying to figure out how/if the AUX I/O affects timing when using it as the output for the DAB, in the case of Option #1 (HDX/MTRX Studio). The output from the DAB would be HDXHybrid Engine, so it’s only if the input through Aux I/O causes sync issues?

3. I already have a sync generator and will get either the BM Ultrastudio HD mini or 4K mini, both of which have BB/Tri-Sync ref input.

4. I might be able to use an analogue input on the BM video card for talkback. If not, then I’ll probably have to run an analogue cable from the D-Control X-Mon d-sub (break-out from the Trinnov) to the Focusrite in the case of Option #2.

I have carefully considered other options, including options like the Genelec Ones for example. My question at this point is just about sync accuracy: If the Aux I/O output to the Dolby Audio Bridge causes timing issues when using the Hybrid Engine? If so, then that would rule out Option #1 as tight, frame edge sync is its main benefit (to me).

Thanks again for your reply, G

[its2loud]

2. I’m trying to figure out how/if the AUX I/O affects timing when using it as the output for the DAB, in the case of Option #1 (HDX/MTRX Studio). The output from the DAB would be HDXHybrid Engine, so it’s only if the input through Aux I/O causes sync issues?

This is not a preferred way of working for Dolby Atmos. The AUX IO has varying degrees of latency that is not a consistent amount.

[Greg Malcangi]

Originally Posted by its2loud

This is not a preferred way of working for Dolby Atmos. The AUX IO has varying degrees of latency that is not a consistent amount.

Thanks for this info. I don’t suppose you know what/how much variable degrees of latency we’re talking about, just a few milliseconds or 20 or more?

Thanks, G

[paulo m]

Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi

Thanks for this info. I don’t suppose you know what/how much variable degrees of latency we’re talking about, just a few milliseconds or 20 or more?

Thanks, G

You can use HDX in Hybrid Mode, meaning PT playback will be HDX and on the Output tab of I/O you create an AUX I/O with DAB just for Output to the Renderer.

But if you don´t need or have HDX, you just set PT playback engine to DAB, feed the Renderer from there and output from the Renderer in core audio or Dante to your interface, be it the DAD Core or the MTRX Studio.

Yes, it has a latency, because the signal goes to the Renderer, gets processed and comes back as live re-renders or Physical output 7.1.4 in your case, goes to the DADMan and then to whatever monitoring system you have. And yes, the Trinnov will also introduce latency as do the Genelec GLM system, as do your video display or projector....

I freelance in a studio with a 7.1.4 setup with Genelec´s the Ones as LCR and other models for surrounds and heights and GLM, all connected via AES, HDX in Hybrid mode and DAB feeding the Renderer with AUX I/O. Pretty happy with it. No Sync HD or Sync X. Not saying that it wouldn´t be nice to have, but very costly. So far so good, no complaints.

[Greg Malcangi]

Originally Posted by paulo m

I freelance in a studio with a 7.1.4 setup with Genelec´s the Ones as LCR and other models for surrounds and heights and GLM, all connected via AES, HDX in Hybrid mode and DAB feeding the Renderer with AUX I/O. Pretty happy with it. No Sync HD or Sync X. Not saying that it wouldn´t be nice to have, but very costly. So far so good, no complaints.

The issue isn’t latency, it variable latency. So if the Trinnov has say 24ms once you’ve set it up, then you just account for that with the video off-set and it’s always the same and in sync. However, that’s only with frame edge sync (with an avid sync device). Without frame edge sync, PT is only accurate to within a frame. Playback one time might be out by a quarter frame, next time spot on, next time 3 quarter frames out. So if using my sync HD with the hybrid engine/HDX, PT will always have accurate sync but if the DAB through Aux I/O has latency that varies half a frame or more, that’s pretty much the same sync variability as not having frame edge sync, which negates the point of the extra cost of a HDX card and eliminates option #1.

However, I’ve run PT in post without a Sync HD and the sync isn’t too bad, usually less than half a frame in my experience, which I could maybe live. The added sync variability would make me nervous though. Your experience indicates still isn’t a problem, even without frame edge sync and added variability of the DAB fed through the Aux I/O.

It would be very helpful to have some idea of the amount of variability with the DAB through Aux I/O. If it’s just a few milliseconds then there’s still a benefit of frame edge sync.

G

[its2loud]

Latency and Clocking With Aux I/O
Pro Tools users will no longer have to compromise their Playback Engine’s performance by creating Aggregate Audio Devices to incorporate additional hardware, though it should be said that there is no delay compensation on an Aux I/O and additional latency will be introduced on the Aux I/O, though in practice this is minimal, dependant on buffer settings. The Playback Engine offers reliable performance with delay compensation and, depending on the particular playback engine, low or negligible latency. Aux I/O doesn’t inherit these characteristics and should be seen as complementary to your Playback engine. Latency might vary between passes and it even has its own Ignore Errors During Playback Setting. Reported performance is apparently very good but it’s important to understand the difference between the Playback Engine I/O and Aux I/O.

Clocking and preventing drift can be achieved for interfaces using conventional clocking if available but for virtual devices this isn’t possible. The Pro Tools Audio Bridge virtual devices which come preinstalled have a built in clocking mechanism which custom virtual devices don’t have so these should be used where possible.

https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...sked-Questions