Mixing low end!

[phanatik]

Wassup folks

I know this post has been in here more than enuff if so. i haventt found the info i needed.
Im mixing on a Digi 002, from xternal sequencers,.. rather it from a Triton or various MPC's. By the way we're doin Hip-Hop.
From whatever sequencer, i usually run them from their respective outs through a Mackie 24x8. I always track them 2wice. 1 all dryand then again with some corrective eq. Im monitoring through the 002 with either yamaha NS-10's or mackie HR824's.
Afterwards... mixing.. solely in PT 6.4 on a Mac dual 1.25, 1.5 G ram. i use mostly Waves plug-ins some digi stuff and vocalign.
Vocally mixing Im pretty much straight, if there are problems and there r some every now n then its due to the lack a better chain.
in that area Im trackin straight to the 002 with slight compression of an RNC 1773. Again I track vocals 2wice also. dry and slight comp.

But musically is my problem. I mix the sounds record it for check. In the car its sounds clean but the bass/kick end is heavy!

In my room stereo or the tv; thats when i know its wrong when i play it through my dvd system Tv and its sounds like the Oompa Loompas are n there playin around kicken the speakers or somethin.

@ the end of the mix i do use LinMB and Low Comp but it still comes out heavy. Then Im think its b4 all the end of mixin its the actual mixin.
How can I tame this are and make everything well balance and tuff at he same time?

Any info will b appreciated

thnx

[JFreak]

you are not using your multiband correctly. if the linMB seems too complicated, try the vintagewarmer by www.pspaudioware.com and try to learn how it's supposed to be done. you might also need to re-eq something if there's excessive "oompah" somewhere.

[phanatik]

thnx JFreak

i might not b usin my MB correctly. I usually use the opto preset n tweak it a lil. but i still get too much oomph.

I do have Vintage Warmer , do really use it.

I do need to learn more of the art on Multi-band comp.

thnx

How r u with it?

[katoramone]

Too much booming or rumbling is from 180Hz and lower in the frequency, thats an easy eq tweak. Just curve it down a bit.

[phanatik]

i understand the curvin, but @ the same time i dont wanna lose the punch.

And thats a hi curve(180hz). i usually cutoff @50hz on the kick alone and over bring the bass down some.

thats y Im here askin.

any more pointers please!!!

[JFreak]

if you "hear" muddy bass, try tweaking the 100-250Hz frequency range. 50Hz and below are "felt" more than heard. to my understanding, hip hop would benefit from a lot of energy in below 50Hz area, so try setting your multiband in a way that the lowest band has an upper limit of 50Hz.

just a thought.

[bjkiwi]

hey man,
me thinks your problem is your monitors or monitoring environment. The NSIOs are nice to mix on but they've got NO lo end down below about 100hz. haven't used the mackies.

u say it's got more lo end in your car or on your home system...then you need to ensure your studio system is the same. More than anything, monitors must have good 'translation' when mixing. that means they must give an accurate picture of 'real world' listening environments.

try adding a sub along with your NS10s...I do. Just don't turn it up too loud or you'll end up with the opposite problem!

good luck, bjkiwi

[phanatik]

thnx bjk

ur right
got do some more"ear" training on my mackies. i usually used the NS-10's for vocal checks and placement/leveling checks.

[where02190]

IMHO the 824's have very inaccurate low end, due to the use of a passive radiator. (If you'r eunfamialiar with the workings of a PR, it is essentially a woofer with no magnet or voice coil, jsut a cone connected to the surround. In the case of the 824's, it faces he rear, and emits energy transmitted to it from the active (powered) woofer. Because of the physics involved, there is a slight (but to my ears very noticable) delay between the response time of the active and passive woofers. This IMHO results in very indistinct low end in the first 2 octaves and subsequent harmonics. My experience mixing on them is identical to yours, excessive bottom, generally at the resonant frequency of the room.

The first thing to address is properly tuning your mix room. This can tame alot of the issues with the bottom end, with the use of traps and diffusers(for the mid/highs) Proper placement of the speakers is also key. They should be properly and equally spaced from the listener at ear level, with minimal reflective surfaces surrounding them. The listener should be cenetered between the two speakers. There should be no walls or reflective surfaces behind the speakers for at least 18"

While the NS-10 is about the crappiest sounding speaker you can find, they are also very revealing when it comes to bad mixes. If you can get a mix to sound good on NS-10's, it will sound good on anything, and IMHO that's why they are after almost 30 yrs still found in ALL the worlds best studios, and relied on heavily by top engineers and producers. While they lack anything in the first 2 octaves, by watching the cone excursion and listening for definition of low end instruments, you can accurately judge your bottom end with them.

Monitoring levels. the best $35 I spent for my mixing was a Radio Shack spl meter. Set to 80db, A weighted, and keep an eye on your mix levels. Typically I keep them between 75-85db. This lessens ear fatigue, and lower monitoring levels are more accurate than higher ones, due to the change in the human hearing curve at higher levels. A mix that sounds good at low levels will sound good at higher ones, but the opposite is definitely not true.

Tune your room, porperly position your speakers, learn your speakers.

Also, you spoke of doubletracking synths, one eq's and one not. You may be running into phase related issues there, I'd sugget using one track f these eq'd properly to how you want it to sound. The multiple tracks are most likely fighting eachother sonically.

[South]

Yes, if something seems muddy, cut around 250K