Amp Sims and order of EQ and plug-ins

[Premo]

I know whatever sounds best is the best approach, but I'm curious do most people insert their amp sim then eq's after it or would you eq first?

Looking at my guitar pedal board I have EQs before my guitar goes into my tube amp.

But it sounds a bit un natural when I do this using Eleven for some reason.

and I always put flangers and crazy fx last in the chain.

[DrFord]

There really is no wrong answer, but most of these amp plug ins were designed to be the final piece in the chain, as far as signal processing goes. Now if you think about it like you were recording an actual cabinet, then after the cabinet in your DAW you would add EQ and compressions, possibly more reverb.

But there really is no wrong answer, as like you said, stomp boxes do just about anything you want, and come before the cabinet. I often go guitar direct in to my avalon, use EQ and compression, and then use an amp sim plug in like chrome tone, or amp farm. Then do the normal stuff like I said above.

My only tip is that amps tend to control tone alot, in that a speaker cabinet gets its sound from its speakers sometimes more than its gain stages, unless you have a really nice sounding tube driven amp, and then of course you want the tubes. But I mean that the speaker cone directly influences the frequency response, and the tone. Typically guitar cabinets tend to sound better the louder they get, but that may not always be the case for plug ins.

I don't know if I said anything useful, but it really is a creativity challenge more than anything else to get the tone you desire.

GL

[docric]

Hey Premo,

FWIW, I generally treat an amp sim track the same way I'd treat a recorded track at mixdown...

in other words, IF NEEDED, I generally compress them, EQ, and place any fx (on channel/via aux sends/buss) on them just like I would on any other recorded gtr. track (after the amp sim).
... but I do spend some time tweaking the sim first (and often at mixdown before printing it) to get as close to what I want as possible.
Like any other track, I'm pretty careful with gain-staging these things.

... not a hard & fast rule, tho', as there's plenty of time I want to "sound sculpture" and I'll use the sim as part of that process (and use all kinds o' crap before it)... but that's generally NOT when I'm looking for a "guitar" type sound.

HTH.

[audiogeekzine]

You can do two instances of Eleven
One with just the amp, cabinet bypassed. Insert other effects, then another with just the cabinet.

[miek07]

Originally Posted by Premo

I know whatever sounds best is the best approach, but I'm curious do most people insert their amp sim then eq's after it or would you eq first?

Looking at my guitar pedal board I have EQs before my guitar goes into my tube amp.

But it sounds a bit un natural when I do this using Eleven for some reason.

and I always put flangers and crazy fx last in the chain.

I EQ the Guitar Signal first
and then you EQ the Amp Sim Signal

Why is Dry Guitar EQ important?

Well... it directly affects how the AMP will respond to the guitar input. For example some tubes/cabs/amps/processors/pedals have a built in LPF and/or HPF at the input stange, usually you dont notice since its at unnotisible freq.

So, more or less you can reaonably expect to insert a 60-90HzHPF and 12-16kHzLPF on your dry input before going to effects.
My general rule of thumb, I like to slightly boost the dry sig mids (800Hz+3dB) for leads.
Slightly nudge by (-3) range for Rym guitar.

!!!Your EQ and LPF/HPF settings on the dry signal channel SINIFICANTLY GREATLY affects how feedback/harmonics are introduced in the amp/gain stage!!! thats why you should limit your gain adjustments at this stage by +/-4dB



...

Post amp effectEQ is different, you are eqing the distortion/harmonics against the mix.



michae
myspace.com/miekwavesoundlab

[teacherman]

I treat FX's and Amp Sims like guitar's play live.

Most guitar players that have racks off FX's and/or stomp boxes usually run the guitar through all their FX's and toys first and then take the final output to the input of their Amps. (remember... if all the FX's are in stereo...they usually run the outputs of their FXs into 2 cabinets...L/R). And then the Amp Cabinets are mic'ed with a 57 or 421 or Royer 112.

With that in mind....here's how I treat electrics with ProTools...

I run the electric through an Avalon M5 or API preamp....
then, record that raw signal on to a Mono Audio Track...
then, BUSS OUT that track into a Mono AUX Track...
then, I add EQ and Compression Plugs.....
then, add stereo time-based FX's like PitchBlender and EchoBoy.....

Then, BUSS OUT that (now) stereo aux track to 2 Mono Aux Tracks....

Finally, on each of the two Mono Aux Tracks, Insert an Amp Sim like Amp Farm, Eleven or Chrome Tone. Try using different Amp Sims for each amp for excellent discrete L/R image.

Remember to SOLO SAFE (Command-S) both sets of buss in Aux Tracks in order to hear the Rig you've built when soloing the AUDIO track.

Later