MAJOR delay compensation problem! Very strange!

[storm-01]

It's a long post, but PLEASE read through this, because I'm a little freaked out at this random problem and I desperately need some answers.

I've been working with Pro Tools for 10 years on all platforms and I've never encountered this problem until recently. Basic info... PT 7.4, mac G5 dual 2 GHz PPC, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM, running two 192s, 888/24, 1622, with control 24.


The problem...

I setup everything to record a band just like I always do. Same mics, pres, routing, plugins etc. I don't have enough outboard EQs, so I run all of my drums through aux tracks with some EQ, just like I've done for years. I imported drum template session data from another band that I recently recorded to cut down on setup time and then make tweaks. We set levels, get great tones from the drums and start recording.

I record with delay compensation on (and I've also had it off, both with no problems). During sound check and while we are recording, everything sounds normal. HOWEVER, when I play back the drums, the snare sounds out of phase, but the snare and drums themselves are in phase.

Here's where it gets really weird. If I turn off delay compensation, the snare sounds normal/ in phase. If I turn delay comp. back on, then it sounds out of phase!!! Again, I've recorded with this exact same setup before without problems until recently. If I make all plugins inactive, the problem is still there.

Two weeks ago this problem occurred for the first time. I recorded a band last week, same setup with NO problems. Then yesterday, I record a band I've recorded recently, imported drum session data from one of their previous "in phase" sessions, and wham...the problem is back!! I also noticed this random problem recording an electric guitar recently. We'd make a pass, sounds great. He would tune up and as soon as he started playing, the guitar sounded out of phase only to pop back into phase without me doing anything other than turning on and off delay comp.!!! AHHHH!

Sorry for the long post, but I'm completely clueless why the phase problem only occurs randomly and only with delay comp. on. I'm not doing anything different from what I usually do. Any thoughts? I've trashed all DAE and PT prefs, volumes folders, data folders, etc., restarted and the problem is still there.

They only thing I can think of is that the problem might be related to importing session data. But if that's the case, then why after years of doing the same thing/setup, all of a sudden this is happening and it's random?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and help!!

[Kroger]

The delay compensation is pretty buggy and has been since introducing it.
Usually I close & reopen a session to get it back on track. This solves it all the time. After a while it starts again and I do the same thing. Really annoying, and you always have this feeling that you can't trust what you're hearing.

[Phil Buckle]

I experienced a similar problem in PT8.01cs1 yesterday,so this bug is still around.
I opened a session with ADC on and all the midi was out of time. I had to toggle ADC a couple of times and then it was ok.
Very scary indeed.

[john1192]

that explains some of the weird timing issues i have had .. thought it was me at one point ..

sorry to hear it is still around ...

[storm-01]

Originally Posted by Phil Buckle

I experienced a similar problem in PT8.01cs1 yesterday,so this bug is still around.
I opened a session with ADC on and all the midi was out of time. I had to toggle ADC a couple of times and then it was ok.
Very scary indeed.

Yes! Exactly! When I had the issue with the guitar going in and out of phase, turning on and off ADC got rid of it, but not with the drum tracks in the other session. It's totally random and I've been working with the same system and setup for over a year now and it's never done this until recently. I haven't changed or updated/upgraded anything recently either.

Also, I didn't find that closing and opening the session to solve the problem. With the drum problem, nothing seemed to work.

What's going on DIGI???

[prophonic]

Hi Storm,

Do you have any inactive tracks in your session? There is a major ADC bug introduced in 7.4 (and exists in 8.x as well) where an inactive track wrongly contributes to ADC calculation.

The only way to get rid of it is to delete the inactive track. We reported this to Avid some time ago through official channels and they managed to replicate it on all their machines but claimed that this was not really a bug! At which point we gave up pursuing.

We even provided Avid a video showing how the bug manifests itself. The link is below.

http://www.songphonic.com/Private/AD...veBugMovie.mov

Good luck

Osman

[storm-01]

After reading your post, my mouth dropped to the floor! Yes, I have inactive tracks in that session. However, I have inactive tracks in every tracking session that I have done while being on 7.4 for the past year. I don't like to delete stuff until I'm ready to archive, so I hide and make inactive things like scratch tracks.

Have you found this to only be inactive AUDIO tracks, or AUXes with plugs as well?

I will definitely try to either delete inactive tracks or keep them active. If that is the problem and fix, then I owe you a very large beer!! lol. It seems that like a bug, sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

Thank you for the info.!!

[prophonic]

We saw it only with inactive audio tracks.

But for safety we now changed our workflow so that we save the version with the inactive tracks, delete all the inactive tracks and save with a stepped version number.

This way we can get back to inactive tracks if we ever need to. Let me know how you get on.

Osman

[[email protected]]

I've noticed ADC issues since upgrading to 8.0.3 cs1. At seemingly random times things go out of time. I first noticed it whilst listening to a reverb which seemed to go from right to left. Once I heard this it seemed to be a problem everywhere. Closing and re-opening the session seemed to solve the problem. This is really bad.............

[storm-01]

Okay, so I went back to the drum session that had the problem and deleted ALL inactive tracks. Turned on ADC, and the phase problem is still there! The drum waveforms are in phase and look normal. If I then turn off ADC, the problem goes away. Now I'm really confused.


Just a thought, I've recorded with ADC on and with it off since it was introduced. Can anyone give me a clear answer as to whether recording with ADC on is bad or wrong?