HD3 to HDX upgrade is total rip off!!!

[nayrbnoswal]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
If I upgrade from HD3 to HDX then i can longer run my current config 64 channels of MADI i/o and 6 channels of Omni i/o analog for monitoring ?
So basically in order to have my config I have to buy an extra HDX card. So instead of the typical avid upgrade of 5-7k i'm looking at

Since I believe this is the case I thought it appropriate to tell Avid just how disappointed I am and I know many other pro users are.

Its not fair that Avid limits the hardware I/0 options ( on Native rigs and HDX). I should at the bare minimum be able to run a madi 64 channels system and monitor a stereo pair or surround mix from one card. I don't need all the DSP for plugins I just need outputs. The fact that you don't allow that or make a box that does that is completely limiting and ridiculous.

A lot of people in the industry are looking into alternatives like nuendo because the hardware is more scalable and you can get more inputs/outputs. For a fraction of the price. If I cant have the same I/0 as I did on an HD3 with an avid upgrade to HDX then why would i bother upgrading then paying more for an HDX2. This is insane so basically to update my HD3 (3 cards) to HDX (1 card) I lose hardware options. Clearly this is a major message to people like me that Avid no longer wants its professional base of users to be happy.

When someone in the past bought a MIX 3 system and then updated to an HD system it was a clear swap. 3 cards for 3 cards and hardware options were actually increased. I remember that clearly and I was more than happy to upgrade to HD. So why all of the sudden does avid believe it is fair to do this. For the price of an HDX2 system, CPU, and i/o.. I can have 2 Competitor rigs fully loaded (Nuendo) !! SSD drives, 64GB of Ram and with 128 channels of Madi back and forth and high end analog D/A's...also a laptop for traveling ... So tell me why this is fair/financially worth it ?


The typical response from an Avid rep is "you get more DSP on the HDX card its more than triple HD"......of course there is more DSP but remember everytime someone updated from MIX to HD we got more DSP. So whats the difference now.

My answer is this.... You want to rip us off and only give us 1 card for trading in 3... simple.

So my response to Avid is this. Lookout because pro level users are going to start gradually growing with their frustration. They are going to look at the $$$ vs functionality and go with a competitor. The competitor will then grow and become direct competition. When the buying audience is looking online and seeing that top artists are using a competitors product they are going to go to guitar center and purchase the competitor. So Avid wake up and make this more attractive for us. I myself love working in the protools environment minus some major annoying setbacks ( no offline bounce, bad instrument implementation etc, delay compensation, midi is no good )

I have been approached recently by the competition (as I'm sure others have) and offered incentives to use their software. So I have to say that unless I see some change in direction from Avid I am going to just bite the bullet and jump ship. Gradually taking myself away from Protools all together.

I am also going to encourage this line of thinking amongst my many colleagues. We are the pro's that can afford to buy multiple HD rigs. At some point just because we can afford it doesn't mean its smart to get robbed. If Protools had all the features of the competitors then maybe then getting robbed is a little less frustrating.

[joecomposer]

As a film composer I need lots of I/O to get enough separation for my mix engineer, music editor, dub stage, etc etc.

About to upgrade my system and I would like 2x MADI I/O plus 16 channels of Analog.

$30k+ for ProTools vs. less than $5k for same I/O Nuendo rig.

The choice is easy. Goodbye Avid!

[nayrbnoswal]

You clearly don't get it. Yes I am complaining about 8 channels. Your telling me I should pay 6k more for 8 more channels? Clearly you don't get it.
Did you ever do a digi upgrade in the past? So think it over again.
If I'm giving avid 3 cards and they give me one...now I don't have the same I/o availability... In the past upgrading mix 3 to hd 3 was fair. This is totally not fair.

To comment on the composer thread they do need more than 4 channels. Maybe if your writing a student film score you don't but in the pro real film scoring world you need 64-128 sometimes more. Clearly you have no understanding of real world composing.

[Henchman]

Uum, it is the Dubstage that would need the outputs at best.
I don't quite understand why a composer, in a monitoring situation, would need more than 6 outputs for a 5.1 score.

Of course, if you want to mix old style with an output for every track going into a console, well that's your choice.
And if you are working on projects that are asking for that type of sessions, then clearly the cost of the card is negligible vs your composing budget I would think.

Furthermore registering to post this complaint, is being a bit of a troll.

[nayrbnoswal]

I do know that many film composers print prerecords. So there mixer can have separation when doing mix downs. This is a typical process. I would imagine in lesser intensity scoring environments 4 outputs might suffice. I am talking about the real professional scoring world not bedroom composing.

[nayrbnoswal]

Furthermore.. The argument is really with avids upgrade policy.
I am upgrading just to downgrade my functionality? That's seems illogical.
So I go from being able to run 96 outputs to 64 outputs. Thanks avid all this for ram caching...
That's a great upgrade. C'mon users this is bogus.
You want to spend 15k to update to hdx2.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by nayrbnoswal

I do know that many film composers print prerecords. So there mixer can have separation when doing mix downs. This is a typical process. I would imagine in lesser intensity scoring environments 4 outputs might suffice. I am talking about the real professional scoring world not bedroom composing.

If I had a computer powerfull enough, I could mix an entire movie, printing stems, with 6 outputs, without a problem.

There's no problem printing pre-dubs, and still only needing 6 outputs.

Like I said, if you are doing projects that require 128 I/o's, the obviously you are working on big budget projects. So, registering here complaining, seems a bit trollish. Don't you think?

[nayrbnoswal]

I don't see how this is trollish. I am a power user and I have spent thousands upon thousands with a company. Now I feel they are seriously ripping off there client base.
I did all the upgrades in the past because it got me the same if not better functionality. Now it's not the case. If you think me wanting to voice a complaint is trollish then maybe it is. Is this not the intention of a forum for users to have a voice?
I seriously don't care what amateurs think because if you don't have a problem with this then you don't understand a professionals view. I have upgraded and paid numerous times never has it been so one sided and retarded. So unless you care to elaborate on my actual post please hold the comments.
Avid used to be the innovator not the guy charging the most without the functionality of competition.

[joecomposer]

I need to build two rigs. One for myself and one for my assistant. Need 128 I/O to print to get to mix / dub.

OK Mark.... so you're telling me I need to give the ENTIRETY OF WHAT I MAKE IN A YEAR on these "big budget" projects to AVID??????????

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by joecomposer

I need to build two rigs. One for myself and one for my assistant. Need 128 I/O to print to get to mix / dub.

OK Mark.... so you're telling me I need to give the ENTIRETY OF WHAT I MAKE IN A YEAR on these "big budget" projects to AVID??????????

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING

Well, you sad one rig is $30 k
So two rigs is $60 k

If you are only making $60k. A year scoring movies that require that type of setup, you really are doing something wrong.

I still dont understand the need for 128 I/O.
Again, if they are dubbing on traditional consoles, that would be the requirement for the dub stage. If it is a requirement for the scoring stage, again,that is their responsibly.

I'm just not understanding the need to have all that I/O.