Anyone Mix in Logic?

[tomhartman]

Have been wondering if all this talk abou Pro Tools not handling "in the box" mixes so well applies to Logic using DIGI hardware.....has anyone had any experience doing mixes in Logic and comparing them to PT?

I have heard some pretty amazing things about the differences in sound between Nuendo and PT....was wondering if there was a dramatic difference in Logic as well...thanks

[kenn.michael]

I've mixed in both PT only, and Logic native only, as well as a combination hybrid ASIO/TDM system using Logic as a front end. I do most of my finals using my hybrid system - using Logic's native engine to do basic summing to stems that get sent to the TDM engine for final summing and fx (can't wait to get that Dangerous 2Bus). TDM is basically used like a digital console, with the majority of the work being done in Logic's native engine. I do like the sound of Logic's native engine better than PT, but then again, I'm still on a Mix system, and haven't really heard HD yet. I'm clocking my system with an Aardsync, and use Apogee converters in native and in TDM, so I'm not hearing "Digi's" converters - just the sound of the software. Logic - to me (personal opinion) has a slightly more aggressive sound and is a little punchier. Sound aside though, I have a 32 fader Logic Control system and find that mixing in Logic is way more feature rich than in PT. There are so many ways to tweak your mix architecture in Logic due to the environment and that increases two-fold when using a dual-engine system. It's really the best of both worlds because I am primarily working with software synths exclusively at 64 samples (no noticable latency)... I can use all the great native plugins, including UAD and Powercore, and then in the back end 32 channels of that get sent via lightpipe into 2 ADAT bridges where I have 16 stereo auxes recieving mix stems and effect send audio which can take advantage of the great TDM plugins - Reverb One, EchoFarm, Pitchblender, etc... It's a great way to mix.

[Guitarman2k2]

awful, horrible plugins, impossible to patch outside ot hardware plugins because of LAtENCY and it crackles and pops at the most in oportune times. The automation gets screwed up if you run a lot of plugins. Its a TOY!!!! Just be grateful you have pro tools, something you can count on.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Guitarman2k2:
awful, horrible plugins, impossible to patch outside ot hardware plugins because of LAtENCY and it crackles and pops at the most in oportune times. The automation gets screwed up if you run a lot of plugins. Its a TOY!!!!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree....ProTools does blow. I'm so glad to see that someone else realizes that TDM is a joke.

The general rule of thumb is that anyone who offers such vituperative, monomaniacal opinions doesn't really know what they're talking about. Or they for some reason feel thratened. Or a little from column A, a little from column B. ymmv.

[Guitarman2k2]

Originally posted by nostatic:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Guitarman2k2:
awful, horrible plugins, impossible to patch outside ot hardware plugins because of LAtENCY and it crackles and pops at the most in oportune times. The automation gets screwed up if you run a lot of plugins. Its a TOY!!!!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree....ProTools does blow. I'm so glad to see that someone else realizes that TDM is a joke. <hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was talking about native toys like nintendo... errr i mean nuendo and logic.

[nostatic]

ummm...sarcasm ?

I know you are on a jihad against native systems, but at some point your posts become parody of themselves.

I thought I help you out there. No need to thank me. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[c.evans]

Tomhartman,

I mix in Logic native and ProTools LE native on my home set up and PTHD at work . In my opinion you just can't compare the power of any native system to the solid track counts with tons-o-plugs that you are going to get in a TDM/HD system.

I really like many of the features in my Logic setup and I use a Logic control for mixing, but if I could afford PTHD I would jump in a moment. However, I respect the amazing midi control and software synth abilities that Logic has, I don't think PT is there yet with midi (this is what I have heard from midi gurus, I am not one).

I disagree with guitarman2k2, I don't think that the plug ins in Logic suck that bad they're just not up to TDM standards. And I don't care how powerful CPUs get, plugins will continue to push the limits of this power every chance that they get. So when you run native be prepared to "live with" some plugs and choose only certain "sacred" tracks that can have the holy grail plugs that eat up 15% of your cpu. But, you can use that extra $15,000 that you would have spent on a PTHD and go get some great outboard boxes that may help if you can deal with the latency issues when you try to patch them in.

I geuss it comes down to what your particular needs are. If you demand 72 tracks of playback mixed in surround and stereo with tons of Waves Ren plugs and bomb factory plugs like I need at work then you've already answered your own question.

If all you need is a moderately powerful system that is very capable of most audio mixing needs then you can consider the various native options out there.

BUT PLEASE! I URGE YOU TO LISTEN TO THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SYSTEMS AND JUDGE FOR YOURSELF. DO NOT LET A BUNCH OF HYPE SWAY YOUR DECISION. LET YOUR EARS BE THE FINAL JUDGE.

GOOD LUCK, CHAD [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Syn-g]

Logic - to me (personal opinion) has a slightly more aggressive sound and is a little punchier. Sound aside though, I have a 32 fader Logic Control system and find that mixing in Logic is way more feature rich than in PT. ---- Kenn M.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I own and work in both a Logic Native system and PTHD/3 with PT software. I have worked using both software for years and I think that when comparing the sound of native systems to older PT, Native can compete and in some cases is better.......but there is no comparing Native to HD. HD is FAR superior in my opinion. I have said in the past that when a native rig gets pushed to its limits, sound quality suffers along with stability. Routing alone makes mixing in Logic Native much more difficult. If I do a mix in Logic and do the same mix in PT, The PT mix is clearer/tighter/and more well defined. This becomes very obvious with a large mix (64 and above tracks). If mixing using Logic as a front end to TDM, its a different story. (note: I have not compared a Logic/TDM-HD mix to a PTHD mix.)
While Logic has a REALLY GREAT Midi engine the audio side of the program is lacking in many very basic areas which require the user to make two or three moves to accomplish what can be done in 1 move for many other programs, not to mention the incredible number of "Logic Workarounds" necessary to complete a days work. Same with Logic Control. Great features, but the way its implemented when using Logic makes working more difficult then it needs to be......I own a 16 fader Logic Control system, but I choose to use it with my PT rig instead because although it is not quite as "feature rich", the features it has in hui mode are the basic ones needed every day, implemented in a more straight forward and usable way. This probably has more to do with PT software vs. Logic software, than Logic Control itself.
IMHO PT tends to stay out of the way of making music a bit more than other software, and thus makes for a more pleasing day when its said and done.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Syn-g:
While Logic has a REALLY GREAT Midi engine the audio side of the program is lacking in many very basic areas which require the user to make two or three moves to accomplish what can be done in 1 move for many other programs, not to mention the incredible number of "Logic Workarounds" necessary to complete a days work

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could you elaborate, especially on the basic areas? I always hear this complaint about Logic, but wonder what specifically people are referring to.

[Syn-g]

While Logic has a REALLY GREAT Midi engine the audio side of the program is lacking in many very basic areas which require the user to make two or three moves to accomplish what can be done in 1 move for many other programs, not to mention the incredible number of "Logic Workarounds" necessary to complete a days work
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Could you elaborate, especially on the basic areas? I always hear this complaint about Logic, but wonder what specifically people are referring to

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well this will take more time than I have, so I will just hit on a few points. Unfortunately, Logic is so complex that only when you have used it for a while (a long while), will you begin to appreciate the differences between it and Pro Tools or other programs like Digital Performer.
Things still lacking in Logic after years.
1. Sample accurate editing and display in the arrange window.
2. No way to zoom waveform height...only width in arrange window
3. When it comes to mixing, many things are more difficult including grouping, show and hiding of tracks, re-order of tracks,etc.
4. We all know about the latency issues that are a very real problem in certain situations.
5. Although getting better, the program is still full of bugs that have been around for years.

I could go on and on but you just have to use the program for a while to see what I mean. Hopefully most of the major problems will be addressed now that Apple is part of the team. If so, Logic has the potential to completely blow PT and DP away. The midi side as I said before is already lightyears ahead of PT. For composers it is a much more useful tool.