Please Avid We All Really Want You to Be Successful

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

The license versions are old versions. You can't even get perpetual licenses anymore.

If AVID went that direction, it would be a ghost town here in a year.

From my chat with Microsoft about one minute ago...

"We definitely still offer Office as a perpetual license. What has you looking for a new solution today?"

Please try checking your facts...spreading incorrect information serves no one...

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by unkJE

"Pro Tools HD Upgrade with Lifetime Free Updates"

The problem here is that since PT9 it has been possible to run PT HD with 3rd party hardware. Avid cannot assume a HD user is using their hardware.

If you ask me, which you didn't, but I voice my opinion anyway...

It was a stupid move from Avid to open Pro Tools for any hardware out there, only to make the low-end users... umm... "uncomfortable" with the new subscription based licensing. Many of them will move to other DAW's, sadly.

And why is that? Because vast majority of HD users still use Avid hardware so the hardware lock would in fact have made it possible to implement the deal I quoted. But without hardware lock, there is zero chance. Avid doesn't make profit from 3rd party hardware sales and they cannot price the HD software high enough to offer lifetime support.

Avid has profiled themselves as a high-end hardware company that sells software too. There are two separate markets. The customer who buys high-end hardware couldn't care less about all this fuzz going on here, but the customer who has a hard time justifying 199 a year is just going to look elsewhere. The low-end offering has always been a way to get more people buying HD but now that the standard software is just as capable of HD1 system ten years ago, things have changed. A lot!

But... you can't mix oil with water, apparently.

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by superwack

David. Thanks for trying but Avid are kidding themselves. Lots of people HAVE joined in but that's because you've given them something they want/need (PT11 upgrade) at a discounted price. You cannot make any assumptions that this indicates an acceptance of the new business model nor a willingness to pay Avid in any continuing manner.

It's similar to TV ratings "sweeps" if you run a wildly successful movie in a spot normally occupied by a lame sit-com, of course you'll get more viewers BUT next week when the normal show airs your ratings will be back to normal as well.

As a point. One of the post facilities I work at has 5 PTHD rooms and probably 70+ MC rooms. They just bought the 11 plan in November (for the upgrade) but are still running 10 as 11 is not stable enough. As for MC, they recently did update... All the way to used 6.5 licenses! And won't be renewing or subscribing due to cost and incompatible hardware/OS's

I have a friend who is an engineer at FOX and he told me they've just taken all The FOX affiliates in the US and switched them from MC to Premiere... Yikes.

Not necessarily related but I recently spoke to Avid tech support and they asked me what I had at my personal studio. When I said "HD native" the guy on the phone - who was super helpful - said "Native is great, I'm not sure why anyone would buy an HDX system!!!" - that's not good, right?

This.

It's good to see someone from Avid here, but in the past people appear for a day or two to say the party line and then vanish for months on end. It would make all the difference in the world if someone from Avid actually stuck around and engaged with some of the arguments here. Might be too much to hope that they'd take some things on board...

Speaking of which, I've seen several people now say the same thing and I agree with it - if everything stayed exactly the same EXCEPT the penalty for not upgrading, folks would swallow it. If the policy changed to allow people to opt in any time with no penalty at all (a la Waves), 90% of this negative noise would stop overnight. Even with a modest penalty, 60% would stop.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

I've seen several people now say the same thing and I agree with it - if everything stayed exactly the same EXCEPT the penalty for not upgrading, folks would swallow it.

*this*

[upscaps]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

Clearly in the FAQ and from what David said.

In the FAQ it states that if you lapse your perpetual license is good up to that version of PT. In other words. If you lapse at 12.1.2, you will not be able to update to 12.1.3 or beyond.
As well, you can no longer UPGRADE that license either. So if there were a PT 12.5 with new features, you cannot upgrade with that license.

Enter David and the FAQ as well.

2 options:
Subscription - basically a month to month rental
Full license purchase - you have to repurchase the software at 899.

Again, this doesn't apply to HD licenses as there is no current policy for it.

Two options is not being stuck. They gave u two options to upgrade.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

This.

It's good to see someone from Avid here, but in the past people appear for a day or two to say the party line and then vanish for months on end. It would make all the difference in the world if someone from Avid actually stuck around and engaged with some of the arguments here. Might be too much to hope that they'd take some things on board...

Speaking of which, I've seen several people now say the same thing and I agree with it - if everything stayed exactly the same EXCEPT the penalty for not upgrading, folks would swallow it. If the policy changed to allow people to opt in any time with no penalty at all (a la Waves), 90% of this negative noise would stop overnight. Even with a modest penalty, 60% would stop.

I'm one of those people and stick to this opinion - one minor change to address what many consider an unreasonable penalty anyway, and most of this negativity goes away. And if Avid use realistic estimates of lost customers, etc. in their forecasts/financial modelling (not based on the take-up rate of the current $199 plan which delivers PT11 at its lowest ever price!), they may end up with more customers always or occasionally purchasing support plans than if they scare us away with this unpopular lapsed plan penalty.

Hopefully, Dave will return today and at least acknowledge that he understands what is being presented/argued here, and maybe take it away for consideration. Alternatively, he may have already disappeared back into the DUC mist (as most Avid representatives do soon after their brave entry into the world of real customers), confident in their Q4 PT11 sales?

[lexaudio]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

From my chat with Microsoft about one minute ago...

"We definitely still offer Office as a perpetual license. What has you looking for a new solution today?"

Please try checking your facts...spreading incorrect information serves no one...

You can buy the older versions, not the latest. Like office for mac is 2011. And according to the comparison chart, there are no updates for the perp license "older" versions.

SO it itsn't incorrect. I should have said, no license for the latest version

[lexaudio]

Originally Posted by superwack

David. Thanks for trying but Avid are kidding themselves. Lots of people HAVE joined in but that's because you've given them something they want/need (PT11 upgrade) at a discounted price. You cannot make any assumptions that this indicates an acceptance of the new business model nor a willingness to pay Avid in any continuing manner.

It's similar to TV ratings "sweeps" if you run a wildly successful movie in a spot normally occupied by a lame sit-com, of course you'll get more viewers BUT next week when the normal show airs your ratings will be back to normal as well.

As a point. One of the post facilities I work at has 5 PTHD rooms and probably 70+ MC rooms. They just bought the 11 plan in November (for the upgrade) but are still running 10 as 11 is not stable enough. As for MC, they recently did update... All the way to used 6.5 licenses! And won't be renewing or subscribing due to cost and incompatible hardware/OS's

I have a friend who is an engineer at FOX and he told me they've just taken all The FOX affiliates in the US and switched them from MC to Premiere... Yikes.

Not necessarily related but I recently spoke to Avid tech support and they asked me what I had at my personal studio. When I said "HD native" the guy on the phone - who was super helpful - said "Native is great, I'm not sure why anyone would buy an HDX system!!!" - that's not good, right?

Its not just FOX. I've mentioned the picture side jumping ship too. If the main mecca of Film and TV start shifting gears, then that's not a good sign.

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

You can buy the older versions, not the latest. Like office for mac is 2011. And according to the comparison chart, there are no updates for the perp license "older" versions.

SO it itsn't incorrect. I should have said, no license for the latest version

What in the hell are you talking about?

Microsoft just said you could buy a new perpetual license. I asked if you could buy a perpetual license for the current version of Office without 360.

What you said was wrong, and as was previously noted, you have been running around posting this unsubstantiated crap.

Things are confusing enough for people...don't make it worse...

[Barry Johns]

Originally Posted by David C Avid

Hi there,

This is Dave Colantuoni, and I run the Product Management team for Pro Tools. I wanted to take a moment and respond to a few items in this thread to help you understand the reasoning behind the new licensing model and what you get for your money.

First I want to address the "this roll out has been a mess" comment... Actually, it has been moving along quite well, and we have had a record amount of people who are taking advantage of this opportunity. We did the same for Media Composer back in 2014 and the upgrades were delivered were huge and now the licensing model is readily accepted. We expect the same on the audio side.

As for customers abandoning Avid, we really aren’t seeing this happen. While there is a lot of chatter online, people are seeing the value of this opportunity and taking advantage of it. $199 for a year of support/upgrades cost less than 75 cents a day. Most spend more money on coffee per day.

I don’t want you to think we aren’t listening, as we certainly are, and the moderators make sure that folks like Bruce and Jeffro hear the comments. But remember, this is a new program and it will take some getting used to.

We know that the proof lies with Avid and you do have a choice. If you don’t think you want the upgrade, then just stay where you are on your existing version. Most people are taking advantage and using this year as the proof point to see if we deliver. I know we will but you need to feel that as well in order to open your wallets. I can tell you that I know that a lot of users traditionally do just that, they like the version they are using and don't want to upgrade. That's fine. If you want to wait and see if Avid provides updates this year, then wait, if your still not satisfied with the updates then don’t renew next year and you still can use your existing version forever.

If you decide after Dec 31st that you did want to upgrade, there are other options for you around subscription to get you back on the latest version. Those options are as low as a monthly payment of $30. If you look at the economics (I’ll use the PT $199 plan here), you’ll get upgrades for $199 for a full year, and if you continue for 2 years that would be $398 to receive all the upgrades for 2 upgrades. Plus…. Not to mention the Support component that comes with the plan. This annual plan provides all future Pro Tools updates, upgrades, and expert help for one year from the time of activation. That’s worth way more than $199!

We are planning a few releases a year and that can serve as a great upgrade path. In the end, its $199/year to get upgrades and support for Pro Tools Software,and we feel w priced this very fairly to ensure that everybody had access to getting the latest version no matter what product license you are using. This is about trying to ensure that Pro Tools can be accessible to everybody, it’s about making sure that we keep people on the latest version so that they have the best customer and product experience as possible.

Software companies are moving to models like this and if you haven’t already you will see more of this. For software development, its becoming impossible to manage years of users on years of old versions and outdated OS while trying to keep feature development going at a pace that customers expect. Commoditized professional products means that companies like and Avid, Autodesk or Adobe have to adapt with new business models to we can remain competitive and grow the business and provide you with the features and functionality and service you need to be successful.

I think in the end, if you step back and look at the options and what you get depending on which path you will take, the offering of choice(s) will be good for all of our customers . If you want you can check out how much the cost of ownership is over 3 and 5 years… that’s even a better deal.

Dave

Dave, I run a 40 plus million a year operation, with over 400 employees and 30 managers. You seem to be grossly out of touch with your customers as a whole. I strongly encourage you and the rest at Avid to not convince yourselves you're right and face reality that this entire thing is in fact a complete mess! Period.

As already stated please to not falsely assume the recent succes of people upgrading from older versions a representative of what your truly loyal customers will do. Anyone on those older versions would be foolish not to take advantage of a one time great deal.